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How RPGs tend to be epic
And yes, I mean this in the "epic tale" sense.
But yeah, it bugs me that the majority of RPGs are vast planet/galaxy/universe spanning tales of world salvation. I can understand the appeal, sure, but sometimes, something on a smaller scale is nice too.
Off the top of my head, the only RPGs that I can think of that /don't/ fall into the mould are Planescape: Torment, The World Ends With You, and the first two generations of Pokemon. The SMT games tend to small scale too, but still end up with the "save the world" thing.
(You can blame Grandia for this topic. Granted, the whole idea of the game is as a lighthearted throwback to old RPGs, but still.)
But yeah, it bugs me that the majority of RPGs are vast planet/galaxy/universe spanning tales of world salvation. I can understand the appeal, sure, but sometimes, something on a smaller scale is nice too.
Off the top of my head, the only RPGs that I can think of that /don't/ fall into the mould are Planescape: Torment, The World Ends With You, and the first two generations of Pokemon. The SMT games tend to small scale too, but still end up with the "save the world" thing.
(You can blame Grandia for this topic. Granted, the whole idea of the game is as a lighthearted throwback to old RPGs, but still.)
Comments
The non-Ganon Legend of Zelda games tend to be small in scale. Majora's Mask and Minish Cap come to mind. In the former, it's "save a small town" and in the latter it's "save a small kingdom"
Granted, it's save a small town from the goddamn moon. ^^;
You can also say it's save a small town from a wangsty kid throwing a temper tantrum.
Isn't that Persona 4
^Right up until the final boss.
fuck that nerd shit
those are dating sims, not RPGs
The whole level scaling thing of RPGs just lend themselves very well to that kind of tale.
that's like saying that inglorious basterds is not a war movie because they talk more than they shoot
Yeah, I always did feel like the Persona games had too much role playing to be Role Playing Games.
I don't see the problem with this, personally.
One of the things I like about RPGs is how they generally give you many varied settings to explore. If your heroism isn't on a grand scale, then there's little justification for exploring.
Personally I have a hard time being interested in very large-scale stories, especially when they're just save the world plots, so the fact that every single RPG ever (with the exception of dungeon crawlers and roguelikes, maybe) has such a story and focuses on it so much that you're expected to be playing the game for the story and not to, like, play the game, is really a big problem I have with the whole genre that prevents me from enjoying most RPGs I play. Which is too bad, because it really should be my favorite game genre.
Also you can totally have tons of exploration even if your plot doesn't take you across multiple continents.
>those are dating sims, not RPGs
Dating sims -are- RPGs though. You are Playing a Role. It's not Persona's fault that Japan has co-opted the term to be hallway simulators.
As for why so many RPGs have save the world plots, I think it tends to be they want the scope to match the length and those things aren't short. I think Persona 4 managed to break this mold pretty well up until a certain point.
Okay, despite my joke above, this is very much not what RPG means.
Otherwise virtually every game would be an RPG. You play a role in Monopoly, after all.
Oh, so that's why I win when I shout VROOM VROOM when playing the car.
As CU mentioned, every game with character elements (or even implications) is a role-playing game if we go by literal standards. In terms of video games, it mostly just refers to games that draw significant influence from tabletop RPGs.
Anyway, Blackmoon plays Fire Emblem: Awakening, so I don't know why he's on his high horse. :V
I thought Persona was about shooting yourself in the head to summon demons.
That's only Persona 3. And they're representations of the soul, not demons. ...Well, except the MC, but they're just complicated. Goddamn Philemon.
>Okay, despite my joke above, this is very much not what RPG means.
>Otherwise virtually every game would be an RPG. You play a role in Monopoly, after all.
Only sort of? In those games the role is static though. You have no determination in what kind of character Dante or Lightning are. Technically yes, you're playing them, but you're not playing their role.
which is what you do in Mass Effect, Persona, and yes even dating sims.
I will admit Alex's terminology is -for better or worse- how it's used in the vernacular.
Though that terminology is equally dumb since its net when taken as literally is similarly wide.
Aww, and I thought this was going to be about the "'"rocket-propelled grenade" weapons that countries develop.
You disappoint me IJBM, you provided neither rockets, nor propulsion, nor grenadiers.
Expect to hear from my lawyers.
No it isn't? Games where you control a specific character with individual, advancing attributes are not exactly all-encompassing.
Edit: Nevermind, I misread what you're saying and would like some clarification.
The term "RPG" as it's actually used refers to the D&D-inspired system of having a character with specific stats, who gains experience and increases them.
Ah well I thought he meant inspired by D&D as to being epic adventures of sword & sorcery but yeah that's not expansive but I still don't like that term because it's not the core thing that made D&D appealing.
It's not a reasonable thing for the term to mean etymologically, but...well, it's what the term ended up meaning. Not really much you can do about it without making talking about this stuff harder.
Well I think the way we discuss genres in games are dumb because technically Doom and Spec Ops have the same genre. It needs a serious paradigm shift if we want it to be anywhere near accurate.
Both Persona 4 and FFXIII are JRPGs but they have almost nothing in common.
Oh, I very much agree with that.
I think the problem is that one term ends up getting used for the whole game, when in reality you need to describe the mechanics, the interface, and the overall feel.
Yeah, a lot of the time we're trying to articulate one term in such a way that it describes a mechanical genre and a narrative genre. The term "role-playing game" being any vidya drawn from the ilk of tabletop RPGs is entirely sensible from a mechanical perspective, but it doesn't cover those games where playing a character role effectively is an important part of the experience.
To be pedantic, though, Doom and Spec Ops sharing the same genre is part of the commentary on Spec Ops' behalf. If it didn't have an existing shooter context to prop up its overall experience, it wouldn't be half as effective as a criticism of said shooters. Although I suppose that comes back to the difference between mechanical genre and narrative genre.
Perhaps it might be beneficial to think of some ways certain things could be expressed in mechanical terms and narrative terms, separately, so combining terminology from those two disciplines of game experience might actually represent the games that fall into them?