The race card.

MillerCross · 2012-07-11 21:04:58

Islam misogynistic (not to defend the Fox News kind of Islamphobic asshole, but it kind of is)

I heard (By which I mean "Don't quote me on this") that this was actually just the conservative branch that, sadly, has become quite popular in the middle east area.

BlackHumor · 2012-07-11 21:06:18

Also, more on this.

Seriously, I just can't get over this. In what world is calling someone a "stupid transphobic cunt" not so horribly ironic it'd be hilarious if it wasn't responsible for an actual person leaving the internet?

EDIT: 1. According to the above article it'd be the branch practiced by her father, who's Iranian.

2. To be not misogynistic a religion has to have at a minimum clergy of both genders. That nearly no religions I'm aware of can pass such an easy test says something nasty about religion in general to me.

Super Lazuli · 2012-07-11 21:08:30

Y'know. I'm gonna take those tumbloggers' advice and kill myself now.

Nyktos · 2012-07-11 21:08:42

Eh, the Qur'an says some fucked up things about women, just like the Bible and pretty much every other religious text. What's relevant, of course, is how actual Muslims treat women, which obviously varies, but...yeah, tends to be not so great in the Middle East (though even there it depends where exactly you are).

It is true that critics of Islam are often just racists, and one must be careful to talk about the religion itself rather than making generalizations about believers, but all the same, Islam is deserving of criticism just as much (or as little) as Christianity is.

Crimson · 2012-07-11 21:09:54

That's another aspect of internet SJ that gets me. Things like being morbidly obese, being an otherkin, and other unhealthy behaviors are defended as if they were on the same level as homo or transexuality.

Yes, you should be proud of your body, and yes mainstream media is very biased towards a very narrow range of body types. But saying that obese should not even try to improve themselves, or calling people that encourage others to lose weight bigots is just as dangerous.

MillerCross · 2012-07-11 21:11:08

2. To be not misogynistic a religion has to have at a minimum clergy of both genders. That nearly no religions I'm aware of can pass such an easy test says something nasty about religion in general to me.

Of intitutionalized religion, but yeah, I agree. I just felt like pointing out that, you know, religion tends to branch out according personal ideologies and such.

Super Lazuli · 2012-07-11 21:23:10

People are complaining that it's privileged that Lacii gets an article about her but the THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE OPPRESSED EVERY DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY don't.

I have never wanted to punch someone through the internet so hard. Have they just never read a newspaper? Or watched the news? Ever?

I am genuinely sorry if that seemed insensitive. I just find it depressing in the extreme that people are using the suffering of others to justify inflicting suffering on someone else. That's just sick.

BlackHumor · 2012-07-11 21:29:09

That is almost the exact same defense Richard Dawkins gave during Elevatorgate. It was a douche move then (and legit Islamophobic the way he phrased it), so to see purported SJs repeating it is again just rich.

Also, Anita Sarkeesian is white too, does that mean she doesn't deserve the defense against all the gamer trolls?

CountryPumpkin · 2012-07-11 21:53:36

Seems like the people in this thread need to CHECK YOU'RE PRIVILEGE

If you think somebody is being racist, tell them to stop being racist. It's easy.

AXavierB · 2012-07-11 21:57:19

It's not even that so much as people accusing others of racism over the most innocuous things.

Super Lazuli · 2012-07-11 22:00:03

Pumpkin's spelling mistake (intentional spelling alteration?) made me feel a bit better.

I NEED TO CHECK I AM PRIVILEGE? Well if you say so.

Nyktos · 2012-07-11 22:00:10

CHECK YOU'RE PRIVILEGE

/checks

Oh, shit, I'm not privilege.

dmboogie · 2012-07-11 22:16:19

i am the privilege

the privilege is paul

Bastion · 2012-07-11 22:27:51

If you think somebody is being racist, tell them to stop being racist. It's easy.

I think that's a bit of an oversimplification. I do agree with the core thesis of this thread that it's damaging to legitimate causes to claim prejudice where it doesn't exist, because then any claim of prejudice becomes suspect, but racism isn't always obvious and just saying "you're racist" usually leads to people feeling defensive, especially if it's a less conspicuous form of racism which they may not be aware of.

CountryPumpkin · 2012-07-11 22:30:48

Well first off don't say "you're racist," say "your racist"

Second, just kind nudge them in the right direction. Like if they make kind of a racist joke don't murder them (unless you really want to cuz they're annoying, no don't do that) but just kinda say "hey dude, that was kinda racist, could you mind not being racist as much, I'm sure you have lots of wonderful non-racially based humorous puns to share with me, tia (thanks in advance)"

Bastion · 2012-07-11 22:35:32

Well first off don't say "you're racist," say "your racist"

Apologies if I'm missing your sarcasm, but: "you're racist" means "you are racist". "Your racist" suggests that a racist belongs to them, which isn't quite what I was going for.

DYRE · 2012-07-11 23:47:04

ITT: Forzare deletes his own posts.

MillerCross · 2012-07-11 23:51:02

I thought it was pretty legit, not sure why he deleted it (Also, can we not do that? if you want, blank your post, but come on.)

BlackHumor · 2012-07-12 00:10:16

I'm with Pumpkin here: if someone is being racist or otherwise bigoted you SHOULD tell them, and in fact the original question to Laci was perfectly reasonable. It's just that the Tumblr SJ community in particular has a terrible lack of distinction between people who've made a mistake and bigots, and even past that has a deep lack of empathy for bigots past what might be considered reasonable.

MillerCross · 2012-07-12 00:13:16

You should tell them, but the thing is, if you plan to educate someone who you think is ignorant then you can't simply tell them "Yo, you're racist". I mean, it's blunt and all, but as Bastion pointed out, it puts them in a defensive position where they refuse to listen and are unwilling to try and comprehend what you said because they feel incriminated

Bastion · 2012-07-12 00:19:19

I'm not saying you shouldn't tell them, I'm just saying it's almost never going to be as simple or easy as saying "stop being racist" because a lot of the time it's either a deeply internalized viewpoint or (hopefully) an issue that's not obviously racist to the person who said it. If the only thing you say is "stop being racist", the other person is usually going to say "I'm not being racist!"

Which is what bugs me about the usual phrasing "look it up yourself, it's not my job to educate you". If they're not going to explain it, the only thing the communications accomplishes is their own gratification, basically. I mean, you have someone who might genuinely want to learn how to be more respectful of others, but left to their own devices it's most likely they'll just look it up somewhere which already agrees with their own viewpoint.

Juaninja'd, apparently

Alkthash · 2012-07-12 00:29:24

Personally I think calling their actions out is the best way of going about it. Like "Dude, that joke is kinda racist" or "dude, you're being insensitive". Don't trump it up as some part of them, but a stupid action they are doing.

As for educate yourself... I'm of two minds. On one hand you generally shouldn't talk about stuff with people unless you feel comfortable explaining things when necessary. On the otherhand I can understand that people might be pressed for time or dealing with other things at the moment and not able to elaborate in sufficient detail as they would like.

MillerCross · 2012-07-12 00:31:51

I feel that if it's a matter of time or something, you should be able to tell them you are busy or unable to explain it to them as well as you wished you could.

but yeah, i agree with the first thing you said.

Malkavian · 2012-07-12 00:35:12

I just think it's complete and utter horseshit to establish a blog about a complicated issue and then get bothered that someone has a genuine question for someone who has set themselves up as a source of knowledge.

Bee · 2012-07-12 00:35:15

When my parents say something kinda xenophobic, I always make this conspicuous cringe. It gets the message across well enough.

LouieW · 2012-07-12 00:45:03

Juan,

I think there is definitely some evidence that conservative branches of Islam like Wahhabism tend to support much less equality for women, but as far as I know, Wahhabism is more of the kind of thing you would expect in countries like Saudi Arabia which have majority Sunni populations. Of course, that is not say that conservative Shi'ism does not exist in places like Iran, which is probably just stating the obvious.

There are also Feminist Muslims who have some different interpretations of the Qur'an than say a follower of Wahhabism, but unfortunately I do not know too much about them. Other forms of Islam, like those in a bunch of other religions, basically entail using religion as an excuse for doing what you want, which unfortunately tends to lead to a lot of violence and other awful stuff. So yeah, I definitely think the diversity in Islam supports what you said about religion and personal ideologies.

Kraken,

My point wasn't about effectiveness. It was about the willingness to sacrifice something (such as effort or energy or time) for a cause. It's about doing more than typing things on the intarwubs.

Thanks for clarifying. I think InsanityAddict brings up a good point about the potential benefits of even doing something like talking about racism and sexism online, but I do not disagree with your belief that it means more to actually sacrifice something for a cause.

It seems like maybe part of the problem with the Tumblr stuff is that it basically just turns into an echo chamber that causes people to become more and more zealous about their beliefs, eventually leading them to lose sight of their goals a bit in the process.

Malkavian · 2012-07-12 01:37:57

The last part I think is especially true. I think you have this righteous anger but then you (understandably) cut off genuine racism but then a lot of them have the anger with not outlet.

DonZabu · 2012-07-12 01:57:47

>reads the thread without any context

I don't even know what anymore.

InsanityAddict · 2012-07-12 05:59:03

How Not to Call Out -Isms 101:

sexism>"If that's your attitude towards wo/men, no wonder "

homophobia>call person out in a camp manner. may or may not include challenging the person to gay chicken

racism>"You know racism is a crime right? And crime is for "

sanism/ableism>"Well, at least that person has a handicap, what's your excuse for being such a clueless moron?"

classicism>point out the worthlessness of his or her degree and likelihood he will have to fall back on his parents himself

transphobia>point out he looks like a bad transvestite himself/throw him to some rabid Rocky Horror fans

fat shaming>point out that he'll look like that in 20 years

uglyism>joke about a bodily feature he is insecure about

kink shaming>make puns about it. defriend the person if his kink does not allow for easy puns

BlackHumor · 2012-07-12 14:01:46

So, because it seems to be relevant to the thread now I'll just leave this here.

Howdy, Stranger!

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The race card.

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