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Comments
In short, the issue isn't so much on my end. I know the system. The issue is how efficient and intuitive the system is, and that's where I feel DnD fails, especially in a modern context where there are better alternatives out there. DnD's rules are okay, basically, but I don't feel "okay" cuts it when it's the go-to example of a TTRPG for newcomers to the gaming table.
Need X successes at any task, roll Y dice, modified by difficulty. Any roll of 8-10 counts as a success.
Sure, the expansions muddle it a bit (especially Mage. Any edition of Mage. x_x), but the core is simple.
At least with TTRPGs, though, one is able to rest easy knowing that a good GM will make any game awesome. Although I suppose one could also say that a bad one will make any game terrible.
Verily, TTRPGs are as kind or cruel as the dice themselves.
Sometimes I think the vanilla version is the most interesting, because the players are just ignorant human beings thrust into supernatural situations. No special skills, no special equipment, location of GM's choice. It's the kind of game where the players know least what to expect, and that appeals to me as both a GM and player.
Is there really going to be someone that baffled by the difference
between 1d6, 1d8, and 1d12 damage? It technically is more complicated
but the only real obstacle is making sure you get all the dice and when
you're spending $40+ on RPG books (a much larger problem with TTRPGs by
and large) five bucks for a dice set isn't that tough to get.
It's because it conflates the system of logic the system is based on. Being a d20 system, it's set on intervals of 5%. When you add things like d8, d6 and d12 that have no connection to this standardised interval, you're just beginning to pile on things that don't click. One of the great things about, say, Dark Heresy is that it uses the 10% intervals of its d10 system for everything, thereby establishing common logic between all game mechanics. This results in a game that's easier to learn, with less to remember, with less resources required and a faster game experience. They might sound like small things, but it all adds up.
Fourth edition is what 's out and it's the only one that matters.
Rofl 4fag
Depends
on what you play. D&D is a game where you can set your own
complexity level. If you just want to hit shit you've got stuff like
warlocks and rogues but you can also take advantage of other rulelists
many people don't look at, but is there for the benefit of people who
like crunch to their game.
Personally, I feel that having to roll one die type for hitting and then having half a dozen types for different weapons, special effects and so on is too complex. Not difficult to grasp, mind, but as I mentioned above it conflates the core logic of the system and slows the game down. You just don't need it. I'd say the best sort of damage dealing I've seen is in Dark Heresy, where a melee attack, depending on the weapon deals
Xd10 + Y + strength modifier
and that goes for everything. One die type, a damage modifier based on the weapon, and some extra juice for your character's brawn. Logical, simple and universally applicable. Ranged weapons are exactly the same without the strength modifier. And it all ties into the system.
WoD is similarly logical and intuitive, but I know you're familiar with that one.
Remember that all games, tabletop or vidya, seek to abstract reality in a way that suits the game. When it comes to video games, the design is about what you put in the game. Tabletop games are the opposite; their restrictions are about what you clearly place outside the boundaries. Because tabletop games therefore have so much more gameplay diversity by definition, there need to be rules in place that cover any kind of situation. While games like Dark Heresy and World of Darkness lay out simple, intuitive rules that can be applied to any situation the players or GM can think up, DnD continues to stifle itself.
Keep in mind that TT gaming is not all about combat, either, as much as poor GMs might imply otherwise. When it comes to TTRPGs, I feel the best systems are always the ones that allow the greatest player flexibility with the simplest set of rules and calculations possible to keep the game moving and the focus on the events that are unfolding. Tabletop games, more than any other type, have the greatest license to abstract reality and DnD fails to take advantage of that. That's why it's outdated; the game design mindset is stuck in a period of more literal rule interpretation when rules should function more like a player toolset.
Speaking of which, I should get down to writing a few scenarios. Unfortunately, I make the best GM out of any of my friends. T_T
magic thread
magical
use a small selection or even one kind of die roll. I get that DnD
wants finer control over chance, but in the end it just makes things
more complicated. Systems with one die type (WoD, Dark Heresy) work fine
and are fast to play with minimum hassle."
This really shows more of a lack of understanding on your part of the DnD system.
Really, the only die that is consistently used is the d20 (hence the name, d20 system). The other dice are simply weapon accessories to attacks and damage. You'll roll any of the dice besides a d20 or a d6 very little.
"Finely-controlled, locked classes. And even more finely controlled
classes based on having particular builds of previous classes"
This wasn't the case in 3.5 and it is certainly false in 4th. Multiclassing was very flexible in 3.5. Much less so in 4th, but a huge veritably of classes are available.
"Ya know what? Just being too damn complex in general. I understand DnD
being complex editions ago when this tabletop RPG thing was just
starting up and the designers didn't have the hang of it yet, but, to
paraphrase Juan:"
Not really. I learned two different systems of dnd with little more than a few sessions. Especially true for fourth edition, where everything is simple and easy. The only real argument is the nuanced rules that only come into play in rarer situations, and it's REALLY easy just to look them up in the online compendium.
Thank you.
Edit: Bwahahaha, check out how fucked-up the last page is.
There's your issue. Players can't have anything imposed on them. You have to trick them into getting into the mindset, unless you come out and say that it's a horror session. Sometimes, though, the best horror is when they gradually come into the realisation that they're shit out of luck with conventional means of problem-solving.
On the right night, when it's warm enough to be fine but juuust cold enough to be a little uncomfortable...