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Modern concepts of what constitutes horror in media.

MadassAlexMadassAlex
edited 2011-08-22 11:30:37 in General
One foot in front of the other, every day.
"Comedy horror" exists as a genre. This bothers me. For me, "horror" is less a genre and more a flavour of narrative anxiety, so by playing icky and creepy stuff for laughs, you're subverting the horror entirely. "Action horror" suffers similarly, since you're too well-armed to sufficiently fear your adversaries.

Horror is about mystery, the unknown and one's own limitations in the face of those. There is no horror without those elements, no matter how many undead or daemonic adversaries one shoehorns into a piece of media.


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Comments

  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    "Comedy horror" exists as a genre. This bothers me. For me, "horror" is less a genre and more a flavour of narrative anxiety, so by playing icky and creepy stuff for laughs, you're subverting the horror entirely. "Action horror" suffers similarly, since you're too well-armed to sufficiently fear your adversaries. 

    Comedy horror isn't necessarily about that. What you're describing is a parody of horror. Comedy horror is when there's creepy stuff and there's comedy. Simple as that. 

    Same goes to action horror.

    Also, Aliens. 
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    "Action horror" suffers similarly, since you're too well-armed to sufficiently fear your adversaries. 

    I tend to see "Action horror" as more of a subversion of regular horror. Albeit, nearly all examples suck and are bad.

    While regular horror is about, as you said, the mystery, the unknown and one's own limitations in the face of it, Action Horror would be about overcoming those limitations.

    Now if only this were how people played it.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    I tend to see "Action horror" as more of a subversion of regular horror. Albeit, nearly all examples suck and are bad.

    grrrrrrr
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Nearly all examples (I have seen), sorry.
  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    Aliens doesn't subvert horror at all.

    The mystery is twofold for us; what happened to the colony on LV-426? And eventually, what is WY's motive?

    The unknown is the Alien itself, but then it extends into the concept of a hive, causing us to further question the capabilities of the monster.

    As for limitations, that's essentially human limitation against a complex, savage alien organism. The marines still get their asses kicked, so while there's action, it serves to underscore the limitations of the protagonists more than anything else.

    The issue with comedy horror is that humour puts the audience at ease if you dose it too much. And that's the last thing you want in horror, because from about halfway in until the end, you want the audience in constant anxiety.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    well, what have you seen?
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Alien Versus Predator 1 and 2.

    Uhhhh... No, that's about it.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    edited 2011-08-22 11:41:22
    You can change. You can.
    Aliens doesn't subvert horror at all. 

    that's my point you silly australian jackass. Subverting horror does not make an action horror movie. It just makes for a movie that fails at being action horror. Same goes to the comedy element I mentioned.

    ^Ah well. Those suck, I'll give you that much.
  • NovaNova
    edited 2011-08-22 11:42:05
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    The issue with comedy horror is that humour puts the audience at ease if you dose it too much. And that's the last thing you want in horror, because from about halfway in until the end, you want the audience in constant anxiety. 

    If done well, putting your audience at ease can make revelations worse, as they've calmed down, and thus are not expecting sudden scares.

    ^ Multiple methods of subverting it, with subverting here meaning 'having the basis to play it regularly but then taking it in a direction different to the norm'.
  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    edited 2011-08-22 11:43:15
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    I actually think AvP1 was okay.

    The second one was beyond horrible, though.

    ^^ But the action is still secondary to the horror, see? It serves to show us the limitations of mankind's best against these things. As opposed to, say, the later Resident Evil games (or any of the movies).

    ^ But then the movie isn't really comedy; it uses humour to underscore the severity of the situation.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    If done well, putting your audience at ease can make revelations worse, as they've calmed down, and thus are not expecting sudden scares.

    Also, it makes characters far more relatable, which means that the second they die, it hits harder. 
  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    I ain't saying don't have humour. I'm just saying that making the humour as movie-defining as the horror is pretty much always going to be a horrible move.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    edited 2011-08-22 11:47:45
    You can change. You can.
    ^ Multiple methods of subverting it, with subverting here meaning 'having the basis to play it regularly but then taking it in a direction different to the norm'.

    Hence the problem. How can a movie be horror when it isn't doing horror and just "playing and toying with the idea"?

    The basic idea of horror is to try and unsettle the audience and take them out of their comfort zone. Playing the horror for comedy/action/drama (In terms of it being relatable, that is) does not make for that. Therefore nullifying the qualitative of horror there. 

    And except for very few cases, I've yet to see a movie that labels itself as comedy horror and does that.

    ^--shrug-- if the humor is good, it works wonders for me.
  • vandrovandro
    He who laments and can't let go of the past is forever doomed to solitude.
    But Zombieland was pretty cool!
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    Zombieland was kinda funny, but I felt that it coulda been far better if Bill Murray wasn't just a cameo.
  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    edited 2011-08-22 11:49:32
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    ^^ That it was.

    But it was straight-up comedy-drama, just with zombies. Zombies =/= horror.
  • vandrovandro
    He who laments and can't let go of the past is forever doomed to solitude.
    Drama? I saw none of that.
  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    I was trying to find a term for "comedy, but with serious characterisation moments".
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    ...you're kidding, right?

    Wichita / Columbus OTP
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    Hence the problem. How can a movie be horror when it isn't doing horror and just "playing and toying with the idea"?

    It can still be horror. You can play with a concept without stretching it unrecognizably out of shape.

    For example, a soldier could still fight against whatever's hunting them while having the crap scared out of them. More, the audience could still have the crap scared out of them- even as there is a victory on the soldier's side.
  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    Personally, I disagree.

    Predator stopped being horror and became action when Arnie told us that if it bleeds, we can kill it. Being able to fight the horrible thing directly, unless you get your ass kicked or fight an intensely difficult battle, kills the feeling of vulnerability.

    With very few exceptions. Demon's Souls springs to mind as one of the very few successful action games that pulls horror off as well.
  • NovaNova
    If you must eat a phoenix, boil it, do not roast it. This only encourages their mischievous habits.
    It can still be horror.

    With very few exceptions.

     Albeit, nearly all examples suck and are bad.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    I dunno. I never felt that Arnie could have won the fight till he did. The odds were stacked against him and it felt like the Predator was gonna eat Arnie snack for the night (Remember that at the time, there wasn't any canon established around the predators)

    But he pulls through and survives in a fight that I found to be...well, it was pretty cool. Evil laughing alien notwithstanding.

    For example, a soldier could still fight against whatever's hunting them while having the crap scared out of them. More, the audience could still have the crap scared out of them- even as there is a victory on the soldier's side.

    Yes, but those are hardly the things I mean. I mean stuff like having the monster be a blumbering fool for shiggles and having a crew of badass marines who can actually fight the damn things off and shrug them off like nobody's business. 

    Like I said before, what you're referring to is actual horror, wheras what Alex is calling is not horror. The problem is that with very few exceptions, I have yet to see a movie that labels itself as action/comedy horror and does the things I just mentioned.
  • TheMightyAnonymTheMightyAnonym
    ~♥YES♥~! I *AM* a ~♥cupcake♥~! ^_^
    To me, horror is either an aesthetic, or a concept by which a work causes anxiety.

  • CounterclockCounterclock
    Belief
    Horror makes you scared.

    Ooga Booga boo!

    Action Makes you pumped!

    "Ragga ragga roo"

    Thus. Since Terminator 2 had both of these. It's an action horror.

    /trollface.
  • vandrovandro
    He who laments and can't let go of the past is forever doomed to solitude.
    When I mean drama I do not mean teen romance, Juan_Carlos. If that were true, half the sitcom harem genre would count as drama, and believe me, it doesn't count as drama.
  • VorpyVorpy
    ☭Unstoppable Sex Goddess☭
    The ending of the movie has Ripley walking into the hive by herself with just a gun, not knowing where the baddies are and with only a few minutes to get out, while a gargantuan monster stands before her. There is newt being stranded in the sewers as a xeno approaches slowly and slowly. Ripley and Newt trapped in a room with a facehugger. Action Horror sets the mood by making the broadened characters feel helpless lost and scared regardless if they can handle what's coming at them, and have the lesser armed characters also be targets.

    And horror differs from person to person. Horror Themes, Horror Genre, Horror Tones are all things.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    When I mean drama I do not mean teen romance, Juan_Carlos. If that were true, half the sitcom harem genre would count as drama, and believe me, it doesn't count as drama.

    But...but...all the drama around it! Wichita running to a park to be alone, her shining hero savin her and...stuff. and tallahassee's dog! How can you forget about his dog, dude!?
  • vandrovandro
    He who laments and can't let go of the past is forever doomed to solitude.
    Puppies live to be eaten by zombies.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    you unfeeling monster. >:(
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