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Comments
Yes, she certainly deserves rape as punishment for saying something.
^I cannot believe you'd say something like that. You're normally pretty vehement and sometimes a tad dramatic, but still without indulging in the ignorant antics you're calling others out on.
"sarcasm" hrm what is this concept http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sarcasm
1. harsh or bitter derision or irony
Well I am bitter towards the guy saying that she deserves to be raped yep! So I guess I may have been sarcastic when I said that she should be raped??? IDK
Sarcasm is pretty hard to pick up on in text.
I dunno, that statement seemed pretty clearly sarcastic to me.
Same here.
Same here. Also, Scythemantis, the ranting is really unbecoming, regardless of what you meant by it.
Blatant sarcasm is best met with taking it straightfaced. It's so easily abused that it becomes a tad boring.
I thought everything I've said was pretty blatantly jokey, like everything I've ever posted on IJBM or TVtropes.
However, I'm really taken aback that anybody thinks it's actually possible to say anything too harsh about her sentiments. I think I could have said twice as worse than I have so far, meaning every word literally, and still not reach her level of cruelty. I can literally not imagine more offensive words than hers. You actually watched the video clips, right? You heard the multiple ways she almost literally said "female soldiers who get raped can fuck off and keep getting raped" right?
Scythe, wishing rape on someone -- even jokingly -- isn't a matter of humour. And it's kind of throwing how you can criticise people for their ignorance and disregard for insects and bugs while being so callous to actual human beings. When most of your posts here concerning other human beings have an air of hostility to them, it suggests that you might be well served by a reassessment of perspective.
There are plenty of ways to be morally outraged other than saying that someone should be raped to know how it feels, and no, saying it was hyperbole or "just kidding!" doesn't excuse it. What you said was terrible and in extremely poor taste. Period.
That still isn't what I said in the first place. I wasn't even referring to my first post when I said I was using hyperbole, I didn't think anybody would take it the way you all wound up taking it. She used the phrase "raped too much," so I twisted it back at her into "not raped enough if you can think that way." How is that the same as saying I want her raped? It's saying she apparently hasn't even the foggiest idea of what rape is like if she can even dream of saying such things. She wouldn't dream of it if she ever even knew a single rape victim. In my case, I know several, and that's just people who have told me.
Am I seriously alone in finding her statements the absolute ultimate evil a human being could be capable of? She is literally no better a person to me than an actual rapist, and that's not an exaggerated statement (I wouldn't use poor, abused "literally" if it were). If it wasn't a violation of free speech, I'd want to see her punished as a criminal. At the very, very least I want her to lose her job, but her bosses are probably just rooting her on off-camera.
^^Animals don't have complex enough brains to display homophobia, sexism, racism or religious intolerance.
I don't personally have a definition of "absolute ultimate evil", but this falls far short of what it might be. She should be criticised for what she said, and I would sincerely hope she has no say in sex crime policy, but this is just scummy politicians being themselves. We live in a world of sex trafficking and where some disadvantaged nations are warred over by feudal warlords. The subjective value of the dollar is worshipped at the expense of the needy everywhere and the planet is slowly but surely dying all through these things.
What she said was horrible, but she's just a narrow-minded fool. There are real bad guys out there.
I think the difference between personal sentiments and actually committing genuine atrocities is purely circumstantial.
I guess that's a whole other can of worms though, even for me, since I'm also the first to defend people with violent sexual fantasies as no legitimate danger to society. Everyone thinks all sorts of things they would never really do.
But to essentially give rape a public endorsement is to essentially side with rapists. I also hate to say this, but if she were a man and/or significantly younger she probably would be out of a job by now.
I also hate to say this, but if she were a man and/or significantly younger she probably would be out of a job by now.
That's completely untrue. Hint: when you're in an echo chamber the only ones complaining are the ones peering in. And nobody really gives a shit about Fox News at this point unless they were to, say, tell their viewers to assassinate the President or something. (Please don't assassinate any President, thank you.) Also, ~rape culture~
«^^Animals don't have complex enough brains to display homophobia, sexism, racism or religious intolerance.»
No, but they can sure commit rape.
There's still a frightening number of people who look to fox news as a valid source of realistic opinions and fair representation (or any kind of representation?) of reality. There's lots of people pissed off, but then there's probably people watching her, rolling their eyes with her and going "haha, yeah, feminists!"
^But when animals "rape," it's closer to "Must reproduce! Must reproduce! Genes must perpetuate! Only purpose in existence!" whereas the rapee (especially in simpler organisms) probably thinks little more than "oh, another organism is weighing me down. How inconvenient. Hurry up and go away, you, I have caterpillars to suck on."
In human society rape is done either for pure selfish pleasure or, almost more often, with an intent to shame, demoralize and mentally torture another person, and even after they're through, there's a million ways their act can permanently devastate a victim's life.
I agree with Alex that, whilst this sort of statement is reprehensible and terribly insensitive, it's a long way from being even the worst thing ever said in the media. In Rwanda they broadcast appeals over the radio for people to hack their own neighbours to death. Beat that.
And we shouldn't really be saying "X deserves to be raped". You're no better than them for saying it.
Typing ~rape culture~ in the same vein as ~kawaii uguu~ makes me read in the tone of voice of a moeblob. What with the fetishization of vulnerability going on there, it is oddly appropriate.
The phrase "rape culture" is actually completely new to me as of this thread, but I've already noticed that it's positively everywhere and my attention was probably just never called to it.
Explain!
Rape culture is basically the idea that within our culture, we tend to blame the victims and condone sexual abuse. Not consciously, of course, but it's still very much a thing, as seen here. --points to OP--
Let me tell you about Homestuck rape culture, Scythemantis.
A rape culture i not necessarily one in which rape is condoned, but rather, when the incorrect responses to it are condone. Think of all the people who say things like "Well she shouldn't have been drunk," "She was dressed like a slut," "She was alone at a club," "Date rape isn't real rape," "She never said exactly 'no'," "He's in prison so he deserves to be raped," etc. without realizing that not only are these the arguments that many rapists use to defend themselves, but also that the majority of rapes occur between two people that know each other.
Here is a nice pdf about the situation by the Department of Justice. Out of women surveyed who had been raped and not told anybody:
In addition, 10% of college-aged women were raped in 1996, and 35%, or one-third, were threatened with rape or sexual assault. Consider the fact that there have probably been several people who you know that may have been raped or attempted to be raped and they have never told anybody because they're afraid of what others will think of them.
Oh, all that.
Sometimes I think if a woman doesn't feel what she went through is a big deal to her, people shouldn't always automatically assume that she's just in denial and needs to be convinced that she's been damaged - I've seen cases where victims were shamed and ridiculed for not feeling worse about it. On the other hand, some are shamed and ridiculed for feeling worse about it.
There's no one "right" way to handle having been raped, only a right way to handle those who have been raped, which is with dignity. That's really what a lot of it boils down to - society treats victims with dehumanizing levels of pity.
It's always "look at that poor, pathetic wretched thing ruined forever! And oh yeah, the guy who did it kinda sucks too, I guess."
Even when vilified to the fullest, our culture still paints rapists as powerful people. Nobody can seem to shake the idea that rape is an exertion of power over someone "weaker;" It's exactly what rapists themselves are thinking and society openly reassures them of it at every turn. I sure edited this a lot before I could sort out what I was trying to express.
@Scythe: First, to get it out of the way: Are you Pyramid Head? No? Because I never said anything about being serious.
Second, OMG YES TO YOUR LAST POST.
EDIT: I should say here that Scythe edited his post EXTENSIVELY after I had posted. Bad Scythe! No, uh, smaller insect!
That said I still agree totally with his edit even though he's essentially replaced his old post with an entirely new post.
>rape thread
>actual new ground is being tread
+2 on the above sentiment. It's for this reason why I sometimes find it so troublesome that all possible preventive measures are interpreted as victim blaming, leading to a sort of learned powerlessness. Nothing can prevent rape aside from rapists not raping, but even then some preventine measures can act as a psychological safeguard against the feeling of helplessness.
In a way, awareness campaigns à la Slutwalk are a form of preventive measure. Key thing is that those things are never tied to rhetoric of responsibility: you don't see the organizers chastising women who do not participate as enablers of rape culture. Problem is, how do you separate such things as learning a spot of self-defense and other non-paranoia-fueling preventive measures from said rhetoric?
@IA: Frankly I think it's probably better to just live with the knowledge that you might be raped, however uncomfortable it may be, than try to delude yourself into thinking you can do something about it.
I say this as someone who will probably never be raped, though, so take that into account.
Also arguing from a privileged position here, but some people might not respond that well to the idea that they might get raped and thus suffer from paranoia in interaction with the other sex. But meh, can't have a one-size-fits-all approach.
It would help if we spent more attention on date rape/acquaintance rape than on stranger rape, considering that the first is more likely but the second is the one we spend all our attention on.
"you don't see the organizers chastising women who do not participate as enablers of rape culture."
"Chastising" is a strong word, which ties into the paranoia thing.
"but some people might not respond that well to the idea that they might get raped and thus suffer from paranoia in interaction with the other sex."
Whenever I see those "1/3 women are threatened with rape" statistics, I instinctively really hope it's not true or get paranoid. Of course, I don't know how it actually feels (and thus have limited ability to argue a woman's perspective), but I'd ask: why should the burden be placed on the victims beyond minimum self-defense measures?
I guess this is a good time to confess that the rape topic tends to bother me a lot because the arguments make it seem like you can't go out without men raping everybody out there.
*must not reference Bed Intruder song*
The burden should not be placed on the victims, that's out the question. The question is, when does it start to count as a burden(perhaps the awareness of how high the risk is a burden in and of itself)?
Also, rape statistics are probably higher than what's reported, since unreported stuff due to shame/threats, etc. It also doesn't take into account harassment/getting felt up, etc.