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Voting

edited 2011-12-17 17:08:43 in Politics

or How I Learned To Stop Worrying Until Once Every Few Years.

It annoys me that people think voting is the only way to ever change anything in government, especially considering corporations sink plenty of money into lobbying and influencing decision making. And there's only so much you can change when you let other people make decisions for you. In this aspect, I have to give Occupy Wall Street credit; despite the media's best efforts to discredit the movement, they're making themselves heard.

That's not even getting into the whole "wasted vote" bullshit, which is incidentally what made me interested in the "Don't vote, organize" slogan. SOPA also inspired this thread, for the obvious reason that it's a prime example of government not giving a damn about what others think.

Comments

  • edited 2011-12-19 10:09:16
    Loser
    I am not sure how one would even measure if one's voice is really being "heard" or not. I mean, I thought that politicians tended to give lip service to a lot of stuff without actually acting on it.

    In any event, I think that telling anyone who is eligible to not vote is a really bad idea. Even if some votes might be worth more than others in the sense that some elections are closer than others, I believe that voting is about more than just the actual results of an election. I feel like casting a ballot also is a kind of civic duty and that it is a direct way of expressing your opinion.

    Yeah, I guess that sounds pretty lame, but it bugs me when I hear about people not voting because they think it is a hassle, because they are not wild about any of the candidates, or because they are just super cynical about the process itself. As far as I can tell, the best way to avoid getting your voice heard is to not vote. For evidence of that phenomenon, I would look no further than how much government stuff goes towards the elderly, a group that (from what I have read) tends to vote in large numbers.
  • MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    More and more... I'm seeing a disconnect between my personal morals and my morals on a global level... it's beginning to leave me with one solution:



    On a slightly more serious level it's hard not to worry about this kind of stuff when you've spent a year and a half job hunting with nothing to show for it.
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    I am not sure how one would even measure if one's voice is really being
    "heard" or not. I mean, I thought that politicians tended to give lip
    service to a lot of stuff without actually acting on it.


    I think what people fail to realize are that there are not two basic states to opinion but three.  Sure, you can be yes or no on an issue, but the more subtle third option is actually "no response", and this is basically what you get when you don't pester a politician for a position on an issue, or if the issue does not come up in a vote, or if you don't go vote yourself.

    Thing is, while legislatures in the United States typically have quorum requirements for getting stuff passed (e.g. have to have at least 60% attendance, or something like that), there is no similar requirement for voters getting people elected, ballot items passed, or something like that.  For one, having a voter registration system seems pretty popular, so there's a drop-off from total number of voting-eligible citizens to total number of registered voters.  (The exception is North Dakota where there is no voter registration.)  Then you get another drop-off from registered voters to actual voters.
  • I don't even call it violence when it's in self defence; I call it intelligence.
    Well, the obvious solution to what's been stated here would be pushing for more elements of direct democracy, no? Switzerland shows how it's done...
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    Direct democracy might not work for everyone; there are a lot of people who don't want to be involved in policy issues or politics themselves but just want an appointed/elected/otherwise-chosen proxy/representative/delegate/whatever to do the work for them.

    That said, what successes has Switzerland demonstrated?
  • I don't even call it violence when it's in self defence; I call it intelligence.
    *shrugs* If they don't want to, well, nobody is forcing them to actually partake in referenda!

    And, uh, you know Switzerland - very prosperous, stable, peaceful, neutral, contacts everywhere...?
  • OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    Yeah, I've been to Switzerland. It's doing pretty well.

    I think it's expensive to live there, but workers get paid well, so it balances out.
  • I don't even call it violence when it's in self defence; I call it intelligence.
    Yeah, it's expensive there exactly because they're so crazy prosperous. That's an usual economical side-effect. People who live at the border to Germany or France have it really good (get paid in Switzerland, shop in Germany/France).
  • OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    That would explain why the boat I took on my day trip to France while I was staying there was so crowded.
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    There's also all that money in Swiss bank accounts helping to boost the economy. :P
  • I don't even call it violence when it's in self defence; I call it intelligence.
    Well, of course. But all the money is there because Switzerland has been so successful in providing a safe and stable harbour for it.
  • edited 2011-12-25 13:02:09
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    I thought the idea of a Swiss bank account was that it was a nontraceable tax haven and a haven for other illicit funds.

    Or maybe that last one was the Caribbean bank account.
  • I don't even call it violence when it's in self defence; I call it intelligence.
    Well, yeah. But as you've indicated, there are many such places. You need to build up a reputation for that.

    And besides - I never claimed direct democracy makes anything super-efficient. Switzerland just shows you can have it without everything crushing down. Direct democracy would IMO be an end all in itself.
  • OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    I think direct democracy in a really large nation is certainly more doable now, just in terms of how to count all those votes, than it's ever been before.
  • No rainbow star
    Would be better than that first out of the gate system that exists...
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    ^ I prefer preferential voting.

    (No pun intended.)
  • I don't even call it violence when it's in self defence; I call it intelligence.
    It wouldn't replace voting. You'd still need a legislature to take care of the day to day business, after all. It would just means the people can overvote them if enough care about an issue.
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    So basically, create ballot measure provisions where they don't currently exist.  By that I mean rules for gathering signatures to put a certain issue on the ballot.
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