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Pascal's Wager

MalkavianMalkavian
edited 2011-12-08 13:56:54 in Philosophy
MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
A French philosopher named Pascal said that believing in God was the rational choice because if he existed and you didn't believe in him you'd go to hell but if you did and he didn't exist things wouldn't be any different. 

Now, my whole thing is what's to keep the omniscient figure from saying 'Okay I'm sending you to hell anyways for being a cocky little shit.'?

Comments

  • IcalasariIcalasari
    No rainbow star
    Not to mention that it ignores the fact that there are a ton of religions...
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    Well, in his day the general question of atheism was just against Catholic Christianity because... y'know... French.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    The problem with Pascal's Wager is that it implies that there's nothing to lose when you behave according to Christianism, when in terms of spirituality, there's a lot to lose if you don't agree with it.
  • ClockworkUniverseClockworkUniverse
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    Not to mention the possibility that logic makes you consider the odds of the Christian god exists to be minimal.
  • MyrmidonMyrmidon
    edited 2011-12-08 14:20:15
    http://tinyurl.com/7we9x6c

    This is the second time I've used the internet archive today
  • GelzoGelzo
    Pony Sleuth
    There's also the invisible pink unicorn that gives you infinite candy tomorrow if you close all your tabs right now.

    You might not believe me, but that's a minor inconvenience for infinite candy, so you might as well do it in case I'm right.
  • BeeBee
    edited 2011-12-08 14:29:03
    I love how Buddhism includes the Screaming Hell and the Great Screaming Hell.  Because apparently there wasn't enough screaming or something.

    The Burning Hell of String-Like Worms, for those who tempt monks
    or nuns to sin sexually

    OH GOD NEVER ENOUGH SCREAMING AAAAAGGGGHHH
  • MyrmidonMyrmidon
    "There's also the invisible pink unicorn that gives you infinite candy tomorrow if you close all your tabs right now."

    Existence of Eternal Hell?
    No
    Are Adherents Saved?
    Yes
    Are Nonbelievers Saved?
    No

    Sorry, you're still getting beaten out by multiple religions.
  • BeeBee
    edited 2011-12-08 19:12:21
    Something was really bugging me about that article though...

    Terry Watkins claims that the New Testament mentions hell at least 162 times, with 70 of
    those references attributed to Jesus. In the Gospels, Jesus talks more about hell than any other topic

    I'm quite skeptical as to Watkins's count, because other sources put the number at about 20'ish tops, about half of which weren't even hell, but cultural references to (not-torturous) Hades.  And I can think of a few topics Jesus spoke about more than that.
  • captainbrasscaptainbrass

    Malk - I actually brought this argument up in a thread on TV Tropes as an example of why arguing about the good or bad effects of religion was irrelevant to whether you should believe or not. Pascal's Wager is basically an argument for believing because, on a cost-benefit analysis, it's the logical thing to do. But that's not how belief works.


    And there isn't anything stopping God doing what you say, although a believer would probably say - "God's not like that." I think Bertrand Russell actually said that's how he would react if he were God faced with those kind of followers. 

  • ScythemantisScythemantis
    Another problem with Pascal's Wager: if fear of hell is the only reason you believe in God, do you really believe at all? Won't you go to hell anyway for your faith being false?
  • MyrmidonMyrmidon
    Pascal said that people should just pretend to believe until they actually started to.
  • ClockworkUniverseClockworkUniverse
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    Is that actually how belief works?
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    No, but priests don't care if you believe. They only care if you go to their church and give them money. Well, most of them, anyway.
  • MyrmidonMyrmidon
    ^^Maybe?
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    Not really, no.
  • vandrovandro
    He who laments and can't let go of the past is forever doomed to solitude.
    Fake it till you make it, that's possible.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    It's possible, but that's not exactly good for you and I don't see why you should do that. I mean, Pascal says there's nothing wrong if you end up believing because he believed in God. What if there's no God, then? Or what if there is a god and he sends to hell the people who believe in Christianity?
  • GelzoGelzo
    Pony Sleuth
    I think there are some examples of people pretending to be a way for so long that they actually become that way.

    TvTropes calls it "Becoming the Mask" but I suppose that doesn't help my case.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    I'm not saying it's impossible to do that. People believing their own lies is not exactly old or unfeasible, but my point is...why would you lie to yourself to believe in god?
  • GelzoGelzo
    Pony Sleuth
    Of course I'm not saying you are, you just posted before I could.

    Someone as cranky as I am about religion surely doesn't think that you need to do that.
  • vandrovandro
    He who laments and can't let go of the past is forever doomed to solitude.
    I find it completely absurd, myself, but I am not to judge, even if I think religion is good.
  • InsanityAddictInsanityAddict
    Diet NEET
    Pascal's Wager would be gambling, and gambling is a sin.
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    I've always agreed with Kierkegaard that the sincere heathen is more admirable than the insincere Christian.
  • OctoOcto
    I don't even call it violence when it's in self defence; I call it intelligence.
    Pascal's wager doesn't make any sense. It assumes you have nothing to lose from believing, but that's not so. if you genuinely believe, you also have to follow your religion's commandments, so in fact, contrary to what Pascal says, there is actually a commitment.
  • StormtroperStormtroper
    To be fair, the argument does not go that there is nothing to lose, but that what there is to lose is finite.
  • dmboogiedmboogie
    probably human
    According to Discworld, you end up being beaten up with baseball bats by the gods, or something along those lines.
  • OctoOcto
    I don't even call it violence when it's in self defence; I call it intelligence.
    And yet, if there is no afterlife, that "finite" is all we have. It's only comparatively little if we assume a priori religion to be correct, which rather defeats the whole point of the wager in the first place.
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