"You need help"

AHR

Thank you, oh internet gods, for gifting me with your almighty justice. Truly, you are beyond wise in your judgments.

MadassAlex

"You need help" is such a useless phrase, since it's essentially just a passive-aggressive attempt to take the moral high ground. Kind of like the Nazi comparison, I find it's invariably a point at which a certain side of argument has nothing left to say.

Malkavian

We all need help one way or another.

AHR

You like monkey porn? YOU NEED HELP!

You spend five hours on a video game? YOU NEED HELP!

You like to dance in your underwear? YOU NEED HELP!

You like Justin Beiber? YOU NEED HELP!

It's only a strawman until someone actually uses it.

RedEyedAbyss

It would indeed be useful if people were specific about what the solution to such a problem would entail.

If someone is an anorexic, that definitely requires medical attention and related counselling. If someone's trapped in a cult, that requires someone to help the person find satisfaction outside the cult. If someone thinks *insert popular media here* is the most revolutionary thing ever, that person needs to be shown older things that already did that schtick.

AHR

Yeah, sometimes it's used with good intentions (when people tell the wangsters to see a therapist), the problem is when you're not angsting, or you're not looking for help, and you get informed of this, or see this being spouted.

All Nines

Did something happen on TVTropes, or is this related to that offhand comment I made a few days ago in the rape discussion?

AHR

This has nothing to do with you, Everest. 

I try to avoid complaining about ijbm regulars, for obvious reasons.

All Nines

Oh. Just wondering.

But I feel that the phrase can have more than one meaning, and so whether or not one is justified in saying it depends on context. Which I suppose makes it subjective anyway.

AHR

Maybe you and Juan could make a "Is AHR talking about me" club :P.

I think the problem is that people assume they understand the human brain more than they really do. 

Or maybe that's just the current source of strife. There is also a lot of mocking. Yeah.

RedEyedAbyss

If this is about what I think it is, I believe that would indeed fall into something that would be beneficial for a therapist to look into. If anything, it certainly is not trivial.

AHR

...What do you think it is? Cause I'd bet money it's not.

MadassAlex

I'm pretty sure I found the thing.

> two people I respect locked in fierce combat
> backs out of thing

RedEyedAbyss

"Oh and if rape appeals to you, please seek help."

All Nines

"There is also a lot of mocking."

If the phrase is used for mockery's sake, then I feel that they're doing it wrong. If it's being used to express bewilderment/disappointment, then there's a better chance it shouldn't just be brushed aside out of hand, and the implication is pretty obvious.

"[T]he problem is when you're not angsting, or you're not looking for help, and you get informed of this, or see this being spouted."

Depending on the circumstances, this might be equally warranted.

AHR

Abyss: Well then, yes, I was talking about that.

And I think the topic is leaping to conclusions.

Rape can "appeal" to you in many ways, and most are very sane and safe, and it's not wise to make blanket statements like that, because it villainizes the innocents and makes them feel like freaks.

All Nines

It looked like they were just saying that this is one of those matters that really requires the level of thought that a lot writers aren't willing to put in. The stories they write have bad rape scenes because they don't give it enough thought and just toss it in. I think that's what they were trying to say.

And for the record, I'd go further; the people who invoke "Rape Is The New Dead Parents" creep me out; bad writers or not, I personally can't get over how they're willing to trivialize rape like that (yes, the trivialization of murder is bad, too; I wouldn't argue that that's less creepy).

AHR

People trivialize everything in entertainment.

See: Star Wars:

Leia's entire home planet is destroyed completely. Does anyone care? NOPE.

It's not a good writing technique, but it's hardly unique.

MillerCross

Well, yeah, but genocide in the context of a military action is hardly as mentally messed up as the taking of one person and forcing them to commit an act which they're not wiilling to coommit with you (Ie: Rape)

Then again, by that standard, Alderaan's destruction is as heinous as rap because it's blackmail and so on, so...make of that what you will

All Nines

^^ That isn't as personal, though; we don't actually see the people whose planet is destroyed, and it wouldn't be as personal for the people committing the act, either, form an in-universe standpoint.

And while I can't quite glean a person's personality from the way they write rape scenes, if I find them to be creepy as a result of other stuff they do, and they handle a rape scene poorly, I'm going to be worried.

And rape fetishism rubs me the wrong way, too, to be honest; like Abyss said, it's not exactly a trivial fetish to have.

AHR

Good to know you take issue with me. 

In actual history, there was a LOT of controversy over the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and even that has its "justified" angle. Death Star had none of that. While story wise it wasn't as affected, to say no one would react is ludicrous.

And it works with all forms of tragedy. People simply don't give anything the proper weight, unless they are focusing specifically on that act.

All Nines

Whoa, there. I wouldn't go nearly as far as to say that I take issue with you.

AHR

I have a rape fetish (and a rather hardcore one at that), and yes, I find it highly insulting when people say it's something unhealthy, or something to be worried about.

MillerCross

I think it is, to a degree. Depending to which level do your fantasies go and blah blah

AHR

Which is the case with a LOT of fantasies and concepts. You can't make blanket statements about them.

Schitzo

-brofists AHR- XD

All Nines

^^^^ I wasn't trying to insult you, but . . . if you yourself admit it's a hardcore fetish, it kind of is.

AHR

I have never raped anyone, if it helps.

...nor have I ever tried to get myself raped.

Neither has Cakman.

And while stories about rape might have been a bit awkward to sit through, at times, neither of us have ever condoned such an act, and have always been horrified by the atrocities commited by real life rapists.

It's almost like we're normal everyday well-adjusted people with sexual tastes. Just like everyone else.

Schitzo: --brofists back--

Schitzo

Me/ reads more Writer's Block threads

Holy fuck, AHR, no wonder you have a love hate relationship with that place.

AHR

Yeah. It's a cesspool of oddities and occasional gems. 

So, in other news, if anyone needs proof of my lack of need for therapy, I will be more than happy to provide more normal every-day human interactions I go through.

I can even provide when I first realized I was a rape fetishist, and if I ever tried NOT being one.

All Nines

Looking at this thread and at the TVTropes thread, it's evident that nothing good is going to come from further discussion of any of this.