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Scream

edited 2011-11-22 10:55:17 in Media
Did the people who made this movie know they were creating the most over-used Halloween costume of all time?

Comments

  • OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    Considering that it looked like an overused Halloween costume when they created it, probably.
  • >Christmas thread
    >Halloween thread

    By George, we skipped Thanksgiving altogether!
  • No rainbow star
    This thread made me want to scream

    Seriously. I actually felt the urge to scream at the top of my lungs when I read the title
  • edited 2011-11-22 11:12:27
    You can change. You can.
    Hey, it made Edvard Munch creepier. Gotta give credit where it's due.
  • MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    It also made it so that whenever I talk about horror movies some jackoff will say I sound like Seth Green.
  • You can change. You can.
    It's because you sound like seth green.
  • MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    Hah I wish.

    If I sounded like Seth Green then I'd get all the bitches.
  • "Scream" certainly gave a big boost to characters being genre savvy and viewers being acknowledged as genre savvy. You could argue if it wasn't for films like that, there would never have been a TV Tropes.
  • One foot in front of the other, every day.
    The recent remake was pretty bad. Too much breaking the fourth wall. And that ending was deus ex machina after deus ex machina; the protagonist pretty much does nothing to solve her situation herself, only winning via the idiocy of the antagonists and the interjection of allies at various points.

    Also, I simply dislike suburban middle-class horror without supernatural elements. Seriously, give me a break. As if someone, at some point, doesn't just pick up some kind of convenient tool and brain the bad guy. Crowbar > knife. I find that most non-supernatural horror, unless done particularly well with a strong context, kinda fails on the level of making the antagonists anything to be scared of. In most cases, you need white, teenage, middle-class, suburban victims because no-one else lacks the requisite balls for someone within the cast to take on some bastard dressed up scary with a knife.

    When your antagonist is just an unhinged human with no special skills... meh.
  • I'm way too easy to scare, so by the time we were halfway through the movie in the theater I'd been clutching my friend so hard that his arm was starting to fall asleep. XD
  • Good people don't end up here.
    Also, I simply dislike suburban middle-class horror without supernatural
    elements. Seriously, give me a break. As if someone, at some point,
    doesn't just pick up some kind of convenient tool and brain the bad guy.
    Crowbar > knife.


    If a white teenage middle-class suburban victim can take on the murderer they can also be the murderer.

    By and large, the entire genre is too steeped in tradition and rigid surface formula to play with that, of course, but in principle...
  • You can change. You can.

    I kind of like the idea of fear being a very important aspect for a slasher. It doesn't translate very well into horror, admittedly, but I like the idea.


    Honestly, I enjoyed Scream not because it was a horror movie, but because it did amuse me way back when I watched it. And it's far more consistent in terms of quality than Friday, Halloween or Nightmare.

  • MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    I disagree immensely that a crazy guy with a knife can't make for effective horror. Most people don't think in terms of self-defense outside of running, and horror relies on familiarity of a kind. It's not just teenagers whose first instinct to a guy with a knife would be OH SHIT RUN. The damage knives do is a lot more tangible than vampire fangs or being ripped apart. Two of the best horror movies in history, psycho and The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, were just crazy dudes killing people. Besides, it's not like people don't freak out about this stuff in real life. Jack The Ripper was just a crazy dude with a knife, and the Boston Strangler was just a dude with a strong grip, but they set their respective cities in panics.

    No, Scream's issues is much more about methodology. First of all, Alex why did you even bother seeing Scream 4? Did you lose a bet or do you have even more self-loathing then I do.

    First of all, The Scream mask looks like a generic trick-or-treating ghost. It's not intimidating and he certainly doesn't have the physical presence folks like Kane Hodder or Robert Englund bring. Compared to all the other slasher mainstays he has no real dimension or anything particularly notable. His weapon is a knife, and not even a big knife like Meyers has. His costume is non-descript and barely memorable. Even slasher films that people don't want to admit are slasher films like Silence of The Lambs and Se7en have recognizable and memorable villains.

    Another is that it's too damn clean. Even the Nightmare films, which tended to have the best budget, have grit and ugliness to them in dream sequences, to say nothing of Freddy's tarnished outfit and burnt-up body. Jason is another example of that, and also of great, intimidating character design. He's huge, hulking, semi-faceless, and savage, and his beat-up clothes and savage makeshift weapons reflect that.

    There's also the goddamn camera winking. I really can't stand the kind of parody that just does what it's parodying does but looks at the camera to go 'Hey isn't this like in that one movie?' ...and then the Wayans brothers make a parody of that and the general I.Q. of the American public goes down another precious notch. Not to mention Craven's earlier New Nightmare treated metahorror much better. (For the record, New Nightmare is the only Freddy film Roger Ebert likes)

    I don't know what's up with Craven. Sometimes he gets great stuff like Freddy and the Hills Have Eyes. Other times he makes stuff like Scream and Deadly Friend. He's been good too many times for me to think he's just been lucky, but sometimes he just latches onto ideas that are just terrible.
  • Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
    It's been years since I saw Scream, so my memory is a bit foggy, but was it really aiming to be scary at all?
  • MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    It was aiming to be both scary and funny at the same time, which is possible I think, but not when you point out every single narrative trick and tool you're using. 
  • I thought it was supposed to be a straight up parody, in a much more subtle way then Scary Movie. 
  • edited 2011-11-22 23:14:07
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    Most people don't think in terms of self-defense outside of running



    This is true. Then again, how many victims did the guy claim? And that's if running is possible at all; someone convinced they're going to die is just as likely to snap and fight as to beg. All it takes is a frying pan and moment of desperation.
  • No rainbow star
    ^ Well I'm sure we'd be fucked if you snapped and tried to kill every IJBMer
  • edited 2011-11-23 13:11:40
    You can change. You can.
    We'd be fucked...

    except we'd just shoot him. 
  • MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    Or just not go to Australia.
  • No rainbow star
    ^ He'd come to us

    ^^ You think mere BULLETS will stop Alex!?
  • One foot in front of the other, every day.
    Am I the only one to observe this? Whenever some young guy snaps and starts a killing spree with a sword, it always seems to be a katana.

    I mean.

    Food for thought.

    And bullets would work just fine. Probably.
  • OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    I was about to say it's because katanas look stylish, but then I thought about scimitars...
  • One foot in front of the other, every day.
    The mythology surrounding katanas also has an air of "the sword makes the man" going on. If you're a cracked nutjob looking for some kind of validation and don't understand anything martial, you'll likely choose the implement that seems most empowering.
  • edited 2011-11-23 20:56:52
    If mythology is to be considered, why aren't Persian swords as culturally ubiquitous?
  • Scream:


  • One foot in front of the other, every day.
    The majority of us here are European of descent, or European, so we've got a different context.

    Keep in mind the weeabooism has been going on for a while now. It arguably got its beginnings in the 19th century, where Western domination of Japan started a cultural surge in England much the same way that the domination of India did the same. If memory serves, the kimono even became something of a fashion statement at one point. I've also heard that dressing gowns are descended from the kimono fashion of this period. I'm not sure if that's true, but it seems pretty sensible -- I'm wearing a dressing gown right now, and it's the only piece of clothing I own which is robe-like, complete in one piece and is tied together with a soft fabric belt.

    So some kind of fascination with Japan and its ways has been with us for well over one hundred years at this stage. The last half-century or so fuelled that fire pretty well. Allied soldiers fighting in Japan captured katanas, which became war trophies. Many, I believe, are still owned by American families to this day -- captured weapons from a different culture, but ones that have become ancestral in their new context. From our perspective, katanas are just so bizarre; they've got a tiny handguard, a fairly short blade for such a long grip, and their construction is consummately Japanese, with different layers of steel forming "suspension" for the blade.

    Via Japanese media, popular in the West as early as 1956 with Godzilla, we start to become influenced. This early media foundation is important, because it paves the way for the combination of martial arts films, samurai films and anime that probably saw Japan's cultural export at its most mainstream in the West during the 80s. The 80s Japanese-influenced media outburst (including Japanese cinema, adaptation of Japanese works and just flat-out ridiculous stuff like American Ninja) in turn sets us up for the last 20 years, where the Japanese dominate video gaming and continue to export anime.

    Persians, on the other hand? They're long gone and, being Middle Eastern, are closer to ancestral adversaries than anything else. Between the Muslim invasions of Europe during the early medieval period and the Crusades of the high medieval period, sword-relevant relations with the Middle East have always been decidedly slashy. Furthermore, they actually considered European swords superior to theirs -- "Frankish" swords to them, although every European was a "Frank" in their vernacular. West Asia's finest swords were probably made by the Indians, who had access to the finest steel and struck the most balance between European straight designs and more "native" curved designs.

    In short, one has to keep in mind that we're biased and we react to what we're exposed to over long periods of time. Medieval Europeans probably thought that their swords were the best in the world, having on the Middle East and North Africa to compare themselves to. North Africa's an interesting case, though, as North Africa was traditionally Muslim territory. Despite these Middle Eastern influences, North African swords had a tendency towards straight-bladed, cruciform designs. They're really interesting; I wonder if they're the same as European swords, or of the same shape with different construction? What challenges did the North Africans face that necessitated straight swords?

    We really don't know much about North Africa in context of the medieval period, which is a shame. By the time the high medieval period rolls around, around 1100 or so, they're not big players anymore, but they're certainly a piece of the puzzle.

    (And there you have it, ladies and gents. Japan to North Africa via swords. I hope you enjoyed your flight.)
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