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Tolerance

RedEyedAbyssRedEyedAbyss
edited 2011-11-19 18:37:37 in General
I do not understand why "Tolerance" is treated as a good thing in regards to diversity because it implies there's something wrong with the other person. It's like saying "You're Muslim, which is bad, but I can put up with you." Why not use the inclusive "Acceptance" instead of the somewhat exclusive "Tolerance" ("One of us" vs "One of them")?
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Comments

  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    Sure is PC in here.

    Tolerance is a stage towards acceptance. It's putting up with things that seem alien now in an effort to understand them.
  • RedEyedAbyssRedEyedAbyss
    So if it's a stage, then why not make the end result the goal?
  • MadassAlexMadassAlex
    One foot in front of the other, every day.
    Acceptance is the goal, but tolerance has connotations that ease the process. A racist might not be happy to accept immigrants, but might try tolerance and that's something. After all, those who are less biased don't need buzzwords to guide them.
  • AHRAHR
    Tolerance is good on a personal matter.

    Acceptance is good on a legal and social matter.
  • BastionBastion
    smote

    Tolerance is good on a personal matter.

    Acceptance is good on a legal and social matter.

    I would assume it's the other way around: in a legal or social context, the most someone needs to do when presented with something is to maintain basic civility. On a more personal basis, genuine appreciation and respect is a necessity for fulfilling interaction; just gritting your teeth and letting them be doesn't make for good interpersonal relationships.

    Though maybe we're defining the terms differently.

  • AHRAHR
    Well, you can't control a human. Ideally, everything should be accepted. At most, you can only make them tolerate you.
  • IcalasariIcalasari
    No rainbow star
    ^ Technically you can't even make a human tolerate you
  • GelzoGelzo
    Pony Sleuth
    Pony says what the wolf and the knight do.
  • DonZabuDonZabu
    edited 2011-11-19 22:02:55
    I believe this was a South Park episode.

    And I asked the same question back on the first IJBM, and the basic response I got was "asking people to accept other cultures is literally too much to ask of them".

    Bummed me out, man.
  • GelzoGelzo
    Pony Sleuth
    I just remembered something about the pony fandom that's relevant. Despite the word never appearing in the show from what I can remember, tolerance has become part of a really annoying mantra of "love and tolerance".

    This leads to a number of people objecting to the ridicule of profound stupidity when it occurs, and responding with a cheesy "Love and tolerate! :3" without making any other justifications.

    Gets on my nerves even when I'm just lurking.
  • DonZabuDonZabu
    ^ That's hardly unique to bronies. Remember "haters gonna hate"?
  • RedEyedAbyssRedEyedAbyss
    ^^And that's why I made this thread. Yes, it may be somewhat nitpicky, but people really should think about what they're saying.
  • GelzoGelzo
    Pony Sleuth
    ^^I guess that's similar, but I'm pretty sure it occurs with more frequency there, though. Other parts of the internet are more accepting of justifiable unacceptance.
  • captainbrasscaptainbrass

    ^ Some sites basically seem to operate on the philosophy that you should be pretty brutally intolerant of unacceptable behaviour and that any site that isn't is a hugbox.


    The problem with that is you then have endless problems in defining what's unacceptable and that this can easily tip over into just being brutally intolerant, full stop. 

  • GelzoGelzo
    Pony Sleuth
    Yeah, there's optimally a balance.
  • InsanityAddictInsanityAddict
    Diet NEET

    Wasn't 'tolerance' chosen precisely because of the notion that there's something wrong with the other person? That even if you hate each other's guts, you still have to maintain a modicum of respect and normality for the other? It's a bit cynical to not fully believe in every person's capacity to understand and accept difference, and this would thus be the easier rather than the ideal way, but I think it's rather pragmatic.

  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    The problem is that you can't accept everything from a culture and assimilate it when it's not your own and you're not interested.

    Sometimes, you gotta tolerate the mexicans celebrating el dia de los muertos until 3 am

    And there's nothing wrong about that, as tolerance is a way of respect.
  • GelzoGelzo
    Pony Sleuth
    I don't think respect is necessarily a requisite for tolerance.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    grrrrr

    meant "in the way to respect" but didn't notice until now because lol phone.
  • ThemThem
    Good people don't end up here.
    Ideally, everything should be accepted.

    ...I know you don't mean that literally.

    Also, this seems pertinent.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    I think she only means it within the terms of those quirky little cultural things we do not tolerate most of the time, like human sacrifice and cannibalism.

    ...Erm, i mean, like different gods and traditions.
  • CrimsonCrimson
    Give us fire! Give us ruin! Give us our glory!
    ^^I find it especially hilarious that certain people actually believe that.
  • ThemThem
    edited 2011-11-21 10:38:34
    Good people don't end up here.
    ^^ Right, that's what I thought.

    ^ ...what's the reference of 'that' in this case? I'm guessing it's the sentiment that literally everything should be accepted but under the circumstances I feel like I should clarify.
  • GelzoGelzo
    Pony Sleuth
    I don't think religion should be accepted at all, really.

    But you have to separate the idea from the person. If I hated everyone I disagreed with, I'd be a much less happier person. In any case, it's not the kind of thing that goes away just because you don't like it.
  • AHRAHR
    Them: Hence "ideally"
  • ThemThem
    Good people don't end up here.
    ...you mean, ideally you would be able to accept all such things, or ideally such things would not have to be accepted? Or, in other words, "ideally I would be okay with cannibalism" versus "ideally cannibalism wouldn't be a problem".
  • GelzoGelzo
    Pony Sleuth
    Why use cannibalism as an example? It's not so bad on its own.
  • ThemThem
    edited 2011-11-21 15:29:22
    Good people don't end up here.
    Mostly because Juan used earlier, honestly. Does it matter?
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    Most cultural/traditional cannibalism comes with ritualistic murder prepackaged in with some nice good ol' abuse.

    Old cultures were all about saving money, see. 
  • GelzoGelzo
    Pony Sleuth
    Well, seems to me that it'd be more appropriate to talk about ritualistic murder.

    I know it seems unimportant, but I'd rather not perpetrate the idea of cannibalism as inherently evil, lest people traumatized by having to eat others to survive become shunned more.

    And there are appropriate analogies to other things that aren't immoral and sometimes justified, but are nonetheless seen as wrong because they are so strongly associated with something else that is wrong.
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