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running up against "the Wall" in video games

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Comments

  • "Well, sometimes I'm like "this game is just really badly designed and not worth my time and effort" and don't give a crap."

    "Might as well just not play the game and save yourself the trouble."

  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    But what if another part of the game is worth the trouble?
  • I never experienced something like that. Maybe the Green Stars in Super Mario Galaxy 2, but that's more tedious than difficult.
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    I want to play a Parodius game.  I want to experience the wackiness, but I don't want to be stuck forever playing the first couple levels; I want to experience the whole game's wackiness.
  • No rainbow star
    Another example of when you may need savestates: "I want to play Kaizo Mario"
  • They call me Rate Miser, whatever I see... turns overrated in my eyes...
    Dantes, you could also try beating R-Type Delta (I believe you have that game) for practice before continuing on with the original R-Type. The former game is more forgiving.
  • no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    I've gotten to about level 4 in R-Type Delta (or whatever level is immediately after the BattleshipRaid against the giant mech), though admittedly I haven't put that much effort into it.

    And Glenn, when I say "Adventure Games" I mean King's Quest, Gabriel Knight, Sam & Max Hit the Road, Shadowgate etc.

    Also, I don't want to just beat the games, see the endings and throw that aside--that's another thing I used to do that I think may have contributed to my low skill. I want to actually be good at the games.
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    Well, I guess your goal is different from mine, then.

    I consider a game "beaten" if I've gotten to the ending through a full course of the game (i.e. no cheating shortcuts), even if cheating is used to make the full course easier to go through.  I reserve "completed" for beating without cheating, getting all the collectables, etc..
  • Look at the three games I listed. Would you stop playing them?

    Yes.

  • no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    Well, then you're wrong. Clearly.
  • edited 2011-09-25 10:54:15
    Cue-bey
    I've never been able to get through the third last single player mission in Guild Wars: Nightfall. After getting through the first few clumps of patrolling demons I'm never able to lure away a single larger demon far enough away from some patrol paths that I can fight it without attracting the attention of other demons and I get creamed.

    @Abyss_Worm: Save states don't solve everything. I can guarantee I wouldn't be able to beat IWBTG/Kaizo Mario even with the most flagrant abuse of save states. Also, most PC shooters have save states in the form of quicksaves/save anywhere, yet I never see people talking about that mechanic as if it removes all skill from the experience. Why is this?
  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    There's also a difference between a designer putting it in intentionally and an emulator enabling something that's not available through normal gameplay.

    As for IWBTG, I am not playing that or any of its derivatives unless there exists a way to savestate-abuse that crap.
  • edited 2011-09-25 12:57:09
    Also, most PC shooters have save states in the form of quicksaves/save anywhere, yet I never see people talking about that mechanic as if it removes all skill from the experience. Why is this?

    Er... you don't?  I've heard that too many times to count.

    And, relatedly, that the ability to use savestates encourages bad level design.

  • Like I said before, part of the skill involved in gaming is patience. This includes planning out your movements and having the endurance to execute them. Being able to continue anywhere removes this skill and instead encourages the bad habit of simply falling back on savestates when the going gets tough. I've never played PC shooters, so I cannot comment on that part. As for Kaizo Mario World et al., it depends on whether you'd find satisfaction in mastering such a game. Again, I cannot comment.

    To be honest, I can see savestates having some use as a sort of "practice" mode, but I would consider finishing the game using savestates on the same level as using a cheat code.

  • I don't actually think using savestates is bad, per se.  But if you're using them all the time just to BS your way through a part you couldn't pass otherwise, that's... kinda silly, and equivalent to cheating.  Though, if you're just using them to skip over tedious things like long cutscenes or having to walk a long distance to get to where you need to go... Stuff like that I wouldn't really say is cheating.
  • edited 2011-09-25 13:09:54
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    ^^ I do too, but unfortunately there isn't a way to list stuff on Backloggery as "beaten but with cheats", so I decided to let that be "beaten" and make "beaten without cheats" to be "completed".

    That said, platform hell games are supposed to be a pain in the ass to complete, so I have no qualms about using savestates for those.  I want my gaming experiences to be enjoyable, not pains in the ass.
  • "Though, if you're just using them to skip over tedious things like long cutscenes or having to walk a long distance to get to where you need to go... Stuff like that I wouldn't really say is cheating."

    Yeah, that's more the fault of the game designers for not having the sense to mitigate the tedium.

  • Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    Oh, I have no qualms for using savestates to do that too.  If I already know that I can beat a bunch of minor mooks going from point A to point B, and it's really not impacting my resources by the time I get to where I need to be.

    Also, for actual quicksaving if I need to get off computer quickly.
  • edited 2011-09-25 18:19:59
    no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    Don't get me wrong, its not that I don't get the appeal of savestating your way through a game... there are many where you're interested in seeing what's around the corner but the results really aren't worth the extra effort of redoing all your progress (99% of all platform games)...

    These though are games I feel a sort of special connection to, so shortcutting them would be basically like cutting my hands off.

    Also my copies of X-Multiply and R-Type are on Playstation and I don't think you can savestate through CD-based games (though R-Type has a pseudo-save feature in that you can level select any level you've been to previously), that and I mentioned in another topic my dislike of emulators since they lead to being addicted to downloading.
  • edited 2011-09-25 20:03:27
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    Yeah, I know what you mean.

    It's like, you can do explore or wizard mode in Nethack, but it's just not the same.  In some games save-cheating doesn't affect your gameplay much (I'd argue that that applies to shmups other than bullet hell games), but in some it really does (such as the lack of risk of death in Nethack).
  • no longer cuddly, but still Edmond
    Yeah, something like that.

    I've decided to tackle this issue by playing games I'm comfortable with (RPGs, Adventures... basically anything with an "exploration" focus) and then playing fighters and shmups. I find that if you have something within your comfort zone with you while you're exploring outside of said comfort zone, it tends to ease the experience a little. The possible drawback is that it could cause be to recede into just quitting the harder genres, but I'm willing to bet it won't.
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