Crossroads

IanExMachina

IJBM that they aren't roundabouts.

Bee

IJBM: Roundabouts.

IanExMachina

Judging by the vehicles on that roundabout, they have absolutely no concept of how it works.

Failure on those drivers rather than the roundabout.

Bee

When the driving rules look like this, I wouldn't be quick to assume the failure is entirely on the drivers.  The few ones we've installed around here wind up having low rates of traffic accidents because they have low rates of traffic altogether.   Because people go out of their way not to use them.

Compare to a crossroads, which 90% of the time amounts to "don't cross traffic when there's a red light and watch for pedestrians.  Also you're stopped and have plenty of time to react."

Forzare

I think I've seen one roundabout ever.  I like crossroads.  They aren't confusing.

IanExMachina

The traffic rules are (UK sides of road used here):

If your turning is the first exit, you stay in the outer lane and signal left.

If your turning is not on the right hand side, you stay in the outer lane and only signal left as you pass the exit before yours.

If your turning is on the right, you go on an inner lane (depending on size) signal right until you are at the exit before yours then signal left.

Drivers on the roundabout have right of way.

Always check before joining one/ changing lanes.

It isn't hard.

Bee

It's harder than crossroads, simply because you're moving in dense, unpredictable traffic (as opposed to having the half of it that might hit you stopped at any given time).

Furthermore, I can think of at least three intersections between my house and the highway exit that would effectively turn into cross traffic dead ends during rush hour or weekend evenings if you turned them into roundabouts.

IanExMachina

It isn't unpredictable.

People on the roundabouts have right of way, they are only coming from the right (or left for you) and by the lane and whether they are signalling you know where they are going/turning.

I'd also disagree with dense traffic, roundabouts let traffic flow as long as you are following the rules.

Regarding the delays it depends on the roads.

Also they are safer than the crossroads

Bee

Once more -- from every roundabout I've ever seen, the cause of lower accident rates is tied directly to the majority of traffic staying the hell away from them in the first place.

And the whole thing strikes me as completely unnecessary, since the vast majority of the crashes we see around here aren't even from crossroads -- they're either from left turns across traffic on smaller, nonintersected roads (typically in the pseudo-boonies where you don't have an intersection at all), or icy conditions.  I think I've seen a crash at an actual intersection once, and the guy was already drunk out of his mind and going 120 MPH in town.

IanExMachina

In the US where they are uncommon maybe.

However in countries like the UK (Or other European countries) they are common and:

'tudy by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety which suggests there is on average a 40% decrease in all accidents and a 90% drop in fatal ones when a traffic intersection is replaced by a roundabout.'

It just means that US drivers would need to get used to using them.

EDIT:

Picture from UK govt website illustrating the use:

Bee

Is that crashes per unit time, or crashes per unit traffic?  Like I said before, no wonder you get less crashes if you scare half your drivers off altogether.

EDIT: Wow, those look nice when there are three cars on the road with non-crossing paths.

Central Avenue

How roundabouts are usually seen in the US:

Engineers: They're far superior to normal intersections! Let's build 40
Drivers: WTF is this shit? Give me a traffic light

...I don't mind them myself, but then again I learned to drive after roundabouts became a trend around here, so they seem as intuitive to me as any other intersection.

Bee

Another thing that occurs to me is that causing an outright drop in motor traffic may actually be perfectly desirable someplace as dense as the UK.  Around here though, stuff is way too spread out to just bike everywhere if the driving is too much of a pain in the ass, and very few places have mass transit with decent coverage or punctuality.

IanExMachina

I don't have access to the papers unfortunately however if you want to look the American Institute of Highway Safety has the references.

Also in the UK/Europe people aren't scared off by them, we use them everyday we are taught to use them.

That was an illustration of what my explanation of where to turn off, it wasn't meant to be indictive of how every round about looks.

Crossing paths isn't a problem if you remember who has right of the way, and in high multiples of lanes you have road markings making everything even simpler.

EDIT: 

Bee, it doesn't cause a drop in our motor traffic at all, as we are used to them, they don't scare us, they are everyday,common,mundane etc

Bee

Compare to roundabouts in New York, where crashes actually went up dramatically because it's New York and people are already idiots.  My sister brought back some horror stories about a roundabout near the Bethlehem area, and Malta was even worse (IIRC crashes went up about 4x in that area).

Roundabouts are like Communism.  If people are already assholes, it's gonna make things worse.

IanExMachina

(US Bethlehem or the Palestinian city?)

New York you say is due to idiots, idiots will ruin anything.

Also regarding Malta (and a number of other countries) the driving is terrible compared to the UK/US.

Saigyouji

IanExMachina

Easy, the miniroundabouts allow for a simple U turn like manoeuvre and would be ignored if you were turning off at an exit.

Also road markings are there to indicate which lane is for which exit.

You'd need to remember from birds eye seeing it makes it appear complex.

Bee

The Malta and Bethlehem I was talking about are cities on the eastern side of New York State.

IanExMachina

You should specify esp with place names already in use in more universally well known locations.

Regarding the US versions, it sounds like as I've been saying repeatedly:

Since there are so few in the US at the moment people don't know how to use it properly, this will change in time.

Central Avenue

I can't decipher the pavement markings in that picture.

It seems my mind is programmed only for North American-style pavement markings.

But I'm a roadgeek! I should know this stuff! >_>

Bee

New York drivers are not known for their considerate and yielding behavior.

IanExMachina

Then that is their fault rather than the traffic system, inconsiderate drivers will be problems with whatever system.

@CA

Pavement markings?

GLORIOUSLeader

Well, remember that in the UK they drive on the wrong left side of the road.

Central Avenue

I got that, but it looks like to get anywhere in the roundabout itself you'd have to cross a solid white line and my American mind says that's a no-no.

^^ The lines, symbols, etc. painted on the road

IanExMachina

(Also for coincidental reference, Malta the country drive on the left too.)

EDIT:

AFAIK the solid white line in the picture is just to stop at in case a driver is on the mini roundabout at the junction.

In the UK solid white lines are non crossable only when on a normal road.

Saigyouji

It's a shame that's not the only roundabout in Swindon. They have some kind of obsession with them there.

Central Avenue

Oh, so they're roughly equivalent to the stop bar at a plain crossroads. That makes sense, now.

IanExMachina

I'd assume so, yes.