What is the left-right scale supposed to measure?

Tnu1138

I still can't figure this out. it doesn't seem to measure anything really it's got two authoritarian ideologies at opposite ends with Leninist style Socialism or Stalinism on the far left and Fascism and National Socialism on the far right? So size and scope of the state is out. So what does it measure?

ClockworkUniverse

"Us/Them."

That's about all that seems consistent to me. Which side is which depends on the person, of course.

DonZabu

You've asked this question like 8 different times, and I've answered it every time, but you don't seem to have ever heard me, so I'll say it once again:

The right likes economic/social class, the left doesn't like economic/social class. It only figures that the extreme pursuit of either goal leads to violence and totalitarianism.

Tnu1138

hm how strange so thet authoritarian right would naturally want to create legislation that would enforce the class systrem and  said policies while the left would want to have an authoritarian means of preventing it? that's very strange seems like a poor scale of measurement.

Ponicalica

It's supposed to measure how much any given 19th century French politician liked the king.

DonZabu

^^ Yeah, communism kind of sucks like that.

Tnu1138

better not let Conductor catch you saying that Zabu. at any rate i'm not sure which scale to use. Compass? Nolan? Vosem?  Rational? Frisson (sp) Institute? so confusing.

RedEyedAbyss

How about actually paying attention to people?

Tnu1138

I have a bit of a fixation with the specific nature of charts and graphs orginizational tools and how they work.

DonZabu

^^^ It sucks because they have to hypocritically use authoritarian measures to ensure mass equality. That's what fucks the otherwise-valid scale up.

Tnu1138

and thank you for proving why communism doesn't work.

AnneBeeche

Right side: How much of a prudish conservative twat you are.

Left side: how much of a sensitive liberal twit you are.

I'm more of a twit than a twat myself, but I prefer to stay in the middle of things. Centrism all the way!

Tnu1138

Where do you fall Anna? but again that doesn't explain Fascism or Communism per se.

RedEyedAbyss

"proving"

*twitch* *twitch*

Damn the humanities.

^^I always found it odd that people primarily consider a liberal/conservative dichotomy, since I identify as socialist.

Tnu1138

provfing was a bad word to use. illustrating would have been a better choice on my part.

AnneBeeche

I lean to the left, but I prefer to call myself a centrist because there are some things on the conservative side that I actually favor, like the right to bear arms.

I identify as nothing when it comes to the different theoretical styles of government because I know next to nothing of the subject and I'm for the most part a thousand years behind on European politics anyway. All I know is that I hate communism with a flaming passion and I hate full-on capitalism too.

Tnu1138

this is why the left right scale makes no sense centrism doesn't describe people who arn't liberal or conservative wel enough.

AnneBeeche

There's a two dimensional political map also, with authoritarianism at the top and libertarianism at the bottom, I believe.

I'm sure I lean to the opposite of authoritarianism.

Tnu1138

I know the NOlan Chart it's orientation can very also. you also have the Vosem Chart or the Rational Chart. The Political Compass as well.

glennmagusharvey

The left-right scale is not supposed to measure anything.

It is for people to pose on it, to score political points from their peers, their supporters, their constituents, etc..  This applies to professional politicians as well as the rest of us interacting with our friends, colleagues, and acquaintances.

Hatter

My definition of left versus right is that the left seeks to regulate the economy while the right seeks to deregulate. The other definitions don't really describe what I see happening.

GLORIOUSLeader

I view it this way: they support the monarchy if they're on the right, and they support Robespierre if they're on the left.

Hatter

Accurate, if entirely useless.

vandro

I disagree, Don Zabu, what you are saying is communism is extreme state capitalism.

Tnu1138

state capitalism is closer to a form of Crony capitalism with certain fascist elements from what I udnerstand.

Hatter

Tnu, what do you THINK fascism is? Because you've accused practically everything of being fascist.

You seem confused, and I say that with love.

RedEyedAbyss

@vandro: It's the closest thing to Marxism being put into practice. After all, the worker's revolution Marx predicted didn't happen.

Tnu1138

Fascism from an economic scale involves a direcyt relationship between  corporations and government. They work in tune with eachother and one supports the other at least that's the economic scale the social element is usually largely secular favoring a quasi-religion based around the state which usually manifests as forms of extreme nationalism.

vandro

communism is like a communal town, on global scale, something of a practical impossibility.

Tnu1138

what's called communism today is often more closely described as an extreme form of socialism known as Marx-Leninism from what I gather.

Hatter

Communism is an intermediate step, in which the economy is forced by the government to redistribute wealth with the intent to create a socialist state. Socialism is the state in which the nation's resources are fully and "fairly" allocated.