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Objectivism.

ChagenChagen
edited 2011-07-13 16:27:55 in Philosophy
[tɕagɛn]
Why is it so vehemently hated? Another case of "hate is spewed on X for qualities I never even noticed).

I was thinking of becoming an objectivist, but if I'm apparently Worse Than Hitler™ for being one....
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Comments

  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    Objectivism is hated because it's an incredibly inconsistent philosophy. And when it isn't inconsistent, it's basically "Be a dick and don't help people."
  • ChagenChagen
    [tɕagɛn]
    The TvTropes Useful Notes page made it seem more like some stuff about the "objectivity" of reality and physical things....or something like that...
  • ClockworkUniverseClockworkUniverse
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    Something very basic about objectivism that anyone looking into it should know: Ayn Rand kinda sucked at being an objectivist. Also at writing.
  • NyktosNyktos
    edited 2011-07-13 16:34:06
    a little muffled
    I think a lot of the hate comes from the fact that it was invented by Ayn Rand, who was both an massive douche and kinda crazy. Furthermore, when you look at other prominent objectivists (Steve Ditko, Terry Goodkind, Jimmy Wales), they almost always seem to be at least one of those.

    That and the whole thing is kinda stupid.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    I do agree with the metaphysical aspect of it, yes. Reality is objective and it isn't subjective nor changeable beyong the changes that we can do, such as moving things and all that.

    But the morality/ethical aspect of it is pretty much "How to be a dick: 101"
  • ChagenChagen
    [tɕagɛn]
    I will one day pick up a copy of Atlas Shrugged.

    Solely so I can see if this 80-page speech is truly real or just a hoax.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    Here, knock yourself out
  • MyrmidonMyrmidon
    Objectivism is: A=A, Therefore be a capitalist.

    Meanwhile, Badiousianism is: Set Theory proves that there are several different kinds of countable infinities, therefore be a Maoist.
  • All NinesAll Nines
    edited 2011-07-13 16:39:45
    Has friends besides tanks now
    ^^ I . . . think he was more concerned with the length than the content.

    Here's the whole thing. I would assume; I certainly didn't proofread this monstrosity.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    Well, he can see that it says "964 words" at the top. :P
  • All NinesAll Nines
    edited 2011-07-13 16:41:16
    Has friends besides tanks now
    Yeah, and that's nothing. It's certainly not 80 pages, which I assumed was what he was astonished by.

    Also, I first typed "astonished" as 'asstonished" by accident. You all needed to know that.
  • ChagenChagen
    [tɕagɛn]
    Everest:WORDS

    WORDS

    CAN THIS WOMAN WRITE LACONICALLY
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    The worst part is that this is a character speaking. Not just some kind of act or anything, but a character speaking. For hours. 

    @Everest: I actually just linked it out of the Wikipedia reference section and didn't particularly notice the "Mini-Version" in there. 
  • All NinesAll Nines
    edited 2011-07-13 16:50:38
    Has friends besides tanks now
    Why convey your point of view sensibly, with your character acting believably, when you can instead baffle future generations with your ability to drag things out when they really don't need to be dragged out?

    ^ Oh. I just searched "john galt's speech full" and it was the first link. The one you posted was the second.
  • StormtroperStormtroper
    According to a half-assed internet search, the speech would take about three hours to deliver.
  • PonicalicaPonicalica
    (void)
    «Set Theory proves that there are several different kinds of countable infinities, therefore be a Maoist.»
    Do you mean uncountable?  Because countable infinity means «has a bijection to the natural numbers».
  • MyrmidonMyrmidon
    I don't know, mathematics is not my strong suit.

    Anyway, Transfinite Sets, down with the Bourgeoisie.
  • inkblotinkblot
    edited 2011-07-13 17:02:18
    000
    Her books. Very long, very bland books that contain stuff that's completely fucked up even when you understand what Rand was trying to do.

    Why convey your point of view sensibly, with your character acting believably,

    In her defense, most of her characters are supposed to be representations, not act like real people. An edition of The Fountainhead had Rand just give up and explain what the hell each character was supposed to be.
  • DonZabuDonZabu
    edited 2011-07-13 17:14:17
    I'm just trying to imagine the people listening to his speech, sitting there for three hours, falling asleep, checking their watches, playing Bejewled, cheering occasionally so that they look like they're paying attention...
  • ninjaclownninjaclown
    Can you believe they're making a movie about it?
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    It amuses me that Armin Shimerman is involved.
  • DonZabuDonZabu
    Atlas Shrugged Part 1.

    I'm assuming parts two and three will be the speech.
  • CrimsonCrimson
    Give us fire! Give us ruin! Give us our glory!
    It's all been said in this topic but I'll say it anyway.

    1. Ayn Rand is a terrible writer.

    2. It advocates absolute Laissez Faire capitalism, says that the rich deserved every cent they earned now matter how they earned it, and says that the most moral thing a man can be is selfish.

    3. There's a cult of personality centered around Rand. Fully advocated by the woman herself.

    4. Famous Objectivists tend to be preachy and kind of dickish.

    5. Normal Objectivits tend to be elitist and kind of dickish.

  • ClockworkUniverseClockworkUniverse
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    >and says that the most moral thing a man can be is selfish.

    No it doesn't. Most objectivists consider voluntary charity to be wonderful, but involuntary charity to be theft.
  • All NinesAll Nines
    Has friends besides tanks now
    "In her defense, most of her characters are supposed to be representations, not act like real people. An edition of The Fountainhead had Rand just give up and explain what the hell each character was supposed to be."

    Oh. That makes sense, at the very least.
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    The problem with Objectivism at it's core is that's a really bad and inconsistent philosophy. Rand is a bad writer, is unclear with her points and depended on tautologies that don't mean anything. Compare Nietzsche who also gets a lot of hate but is actually considered seriously by philosophers because he's a good writer and philosopher, neither of which Rand was.

    For the record, I don't actually believe in objective reality either, but that's neither here nor there.

    Also, no, she can't write Laconically. THAT IS WHAT MAKES HER A BAD WRITER.
  • vandrovandro
    He who laments and can't let go of the past is forever doomed to solitude.
    They don't advocate selfishness per se, but rational self-interest. The difference is that the former comes from inherent dickishness and the latter plays out more like out of,theoretically, the rational mindset from game-theory.
  • MalkavianMalkavian
    MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!
    Another problem with Objectivism is that it takes a number of pieces of good advice for self-actualization and warps it into encouragement of sociopathic behavior.
  • ClockworkUniverseClockworkUniverse
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!
    ^That's mostly Rand. Like I said above, try to remember that not all objectivists are her special brand of crazy.
  • MillerCrossMillerCross
    You can change. You can.
    I have to wonder where do you stand in all this, INUH? You're an objectivist?  Or are you just familiar with them?
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