American's Who Cling To The Constitution As If It Was Some Be All, End All, Super Document

Thorn14

Which is why I'm saying the Government is the lesser of 2 evils.

Health isn't a product, its a right. And why I believe in healthcare.

Tnu1138

It's not a right it's a commodity your syaing you ahve a right to get a service form another individual and you have a right to get their resources?

Thorn14

In a civilized 1st world country? Yes.

Know why? Because that individual has the same exact right as I do. Share the load.

Its not stealing, its sharing.

Probably not the best quote for this situation but. ""We must hang together, gentlemen...else, we shall most assuredly hang separately."

Tnu1138

"sharing " ifthat's what you call it sharing is voluntary if there is any involuntary non-consensual interaction or involvement it is stealing.

Thorn14

Well you cant please everyone all the time.

Look at the floodgates in the south. A small group of people have to lose their houses against their will to prevent an much larger population from losing their houses.

Being a grown mature adult is realizing that we cant have everything we want, but doing our best to try to help.

Its why I support a public option. People wanna stay private? Let them! But let those who dont have that luxury not get the shaft.

glennmagusharvey

@Tnu: Basically what other people have said.

In short, you can't enjoy the benefits of modern civilized society without giving up some of your freedom to do or not do absolutely anything you want anytime anywhere anyplace.

That, and also, wealth begets wealth--those with money are more able to make more money, so it is completely natural that what starts as a completely free market evolves into a situation with lots of monopoly power.  Yes, a free market cannot sustain itself.  This is because a perfect ideal free market cannot exist in real life, due to issues ranging from externalities to incomplete information.

Since you very much distrust concentrated power and authority, you tell me: which one is worse?
* having just one powerful group that dominates everyone?...or...
* having two powerful groups that are opposed to each other, and keep each other in check?

Tnu1138

at the expense of forcing people who arn't even going to use it to pay for everybody elses shit.

Thorn14

Everyone uses and benefits from healthcare.

A healthy workforce is a more productive one.

You need to see the forest for the trees. What you see as a tax on your pay check, I see a stronger, healthier, more productive, and happier society.

Tnu1138

I can sort orf understand a Voucher system wherein ther eisn't a single health care service but it would be paied for through taxes levied by the state governments (It may well be able to pass under the tenth amendment)

glennmagusharvey

Insurance (private or public, doesn't matter) doesn't work if you don't pay when you aren't sick.

Tnu1138

then giving the state a health insurance policy that even the ones not using it are forced to pay for is wrong this goes in line with the state having a monopoly on force.