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"Without Religion, There Is No Morality"
2011-05-13 12:13:36
edited 2011-05-13 12:13:36 in General
Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
This attitude, that things can be defined as right and wrong only because of religion, disturbs the shit out of me. Basically, these people say (and I've met a couple of them) all but say that the only reason that terrible things like rape and murder are wrong is that God said so.
So, basically, they're sociopaths. What I get from these people is that they have absolutely no empathy for their fellow human beings; after all, they only "love" thy neighbor because they've been told to. They think that without God, morality is pointless and stupid.
NOTE: I have nothing against religion as it stands. The vast, vast majority of religious people I know are genuinely kind, caring people, who wouldn't fall to the lowest depths of humanity without the Bible. This IJBM is specifically about people who would be fine with rape and murder and such if God hadn't said anything on the matter.
So, basically, they're sociopaths. What I get from these people is that they have absolutely no empathy for their fellow human beings; after all, they only "love" thy neighbor because they've been told to. They think that without God, morality is pointless and stupid.
NOTE: I have nothing against religion as it stands. The vast, vast majority of religious people I know are genuinely kind, caring people, who wouldn't fall to the lowest depths of humanity without the Bible. This IJBM is specifically about people who would be fine with rape and murder and such if God hadn't said anything on the matter.
Comments
It was velociraptors.
We, as humans, are imperfect. Because of this, our opinions on morality are conflicted. Why is this a huuuuge problem? Because morality is EXTREMELY complex. I suspect it is vastly more complex than anything that we could come up with by combining all of the knowledge on the subject ever. Now, a religious person who says this is probably referring to the Christian God. God, as he is portrayed, is all knowing. Having infinite knowledge is pretty complex, and you can't just write a book explaining all of it. In this case, God becomes like a father (hmmmm) who simply tells his child "DON'T JUMP ON THE COUCH". He never tells us *why* he doesn't want us jumping on the couch, he just says "No, and if you do it again you'll get a spanking".
This example may seem a little silly, but consider that God, in comparison to us, is essentially something out of an HP Lovecraft book, only nicer. If we see him then we'll die instantly. A father's thoughts are a mystery to their child, so how much more so would *God's* thoughts be a mystery to us? We are thus given RULES instead, because just saying "do X, don't do Y" is way easier than explaining everything (not to mention that explaining it would leave it to even worse interpretation than we have with just rules).
Personally, I believe that morality is worth studying and comprehending, and thus leave it as an open pursuit for everyone, as everyone can benefit from it. Of course, as a Christian it's nice being able to follow rules when I don't have any idea of what to do and need encouragement.
We all know you mean Lizard Bite.
Now imagine if instead of one sentence we had long paragraph after paragraph of detailed stuff explaining morality for some 1000 pages. Yeah, no problem there...
^^For many, this is exactly the reason why they will NEVER be de-converted, because if they were, it would mean anything goes. Ironically, I believe that this actually invalidates their own beliefs - after all, no one told JESUS to help people; he helped people because he should and he loved them.
But the main thing is - an idea about god given morality does not actually answers the very same questions it seems to use as "proof". It merely passes the ball. So, god determines what's good or evil. Ok. How does s/he/it does it? If there are any reasons for got to choose a particular thing as good or evil - why not try to discover these reasons and skip the medium altogether? These reasons would stay true with or without god. If god did not have any particular reasons - then how is it any less arbitrary and subjective than man-made morality? Because the most powerful being happened to come up with an idea?
This one used to be quite sympathetic to the thought of god as the first cause, and still likes it somewhat, however, to claim that this idea is the most logical is stretching it. Because it does not answer anything, it only passes the question further down/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down
I think it's more like the smartest being happened to come up with the idea.
So far, seems to have worked out pretty well, given the fact that I'm not a bloodthirsty, opportunistic sociopath yet (I think).
...This one clearly remembers her reaction to the story of Isaac when she heard it as a child. It was, basically, this: "Daddy, will you kill me if god tells you to?". It was one of the few things to genuinely disturb her back then. Of course, my agnostic dad said that noone and nothing can compel him to harm his precious daughter - which is the only decent answer there can be, this one thinks.
Please accept my apologies if it appears offensive or attention-whoring, but this is the question that was bugging me for some time. May I be direct? Again, I mean no offence but - for everyone who believes in divine command as the source of morality - if your god told you to kill me (yes, you have as much proof as it takes to convince you that it is indeed your god speaking), would you do so?
If it was not random but relatively harmless stranger like me but someone you know and love - would you do it?
I certainly don't believe in what you jumped to, and I'm... me.
^Well, it is an implication. At least I do not know of any theory that states that god is necessary for ethics while also admitting a possibility that god might be wrong.
How would the existence of evil as a positive quality render God evil?