Beta Readers on TV Tropes and elsewhere

MoeDantes

I'm gonna be honest: I was kinda scared to post this. I mean, can you get banned from TV Tropes for bashing it off-site? That sounds paranoid, but the way Fast Eddie has been acting, you never know. But the truth is if there's one thing I dislike about TV Tropes, its that it really doesn't have any utility function whatsoever, for being a wiki that is taken so seriously (at least by its founder). The tropes themselves aren't actually useful--they're trivia, a "spot the pattern" game at best. But it could still be a useful resource becaue of things like the Writer's Block, right? Well, no, because: 1. People are quick to offer tons of suggestions if all you give them is a blurb or a brief outline. If you give them an actual story--especially one that's longer than two or three paragraphs--suddenly they have nothing to say. 2. If you beg and plead though, someone will offer something... but it will always be something completely useless, either because its so obvious that you already thought of it, or else because the advice-giver made absolutely zero attempt to understand what you were going for and just throws shit out there. 3. Related to the above, the most common piece of advice you get is "watch X movie for inspiration/research." There are very few legitimate contexts where a work of fiction qualifies as "research," so this is really lazy and shows the advice-giver is actually just talking so he can pat himself on the back and say "see? I'm helpful!" 4. And I've got to admit, I remember way too much that colors my perception of anything I hear from most tropers. I'm not sure how much I can say without "importing drama" but for one example I'm far less inclined to believe "OMG that is so creepy/disturbing!" or "OMG unfortunate implications!" if its coming from a Troper. To be honest though, I don't like beta-readers in general. They're usually younger than me, have less experience with writing (I've been at it for 15 years), don't have the same interests or inspirations I do or if they do, they got something totally different out of the experience, and generally I find that there's like a sort of AT Field that prevents me from understanding their POV at all. The message just doesn't get through. And then there are the ones who seem to always be "busy" and keep putting it off. I mean granted, there could actually be something going on in your life, but the truth is whenever I hear the other person claim they don't have free time, I think "liar, you're just using it all getting drunk and watching anime porn." But here's the whopper: I have a paranoia that one of my readers is going to steal my story, somehow finish it and publish it first, and thus end up owning the copyright. And unfortunately, with electronic media there is pretty much no way to prove they didn't make it themselves... except maybe by using a Perry Mason gambit, but those only happen on TV. So yeah, I really don't like beta readers.

BecNoir

Cool story bro

Vorpy

Just delete the shit that's bugging you on the pages, leave an editting note on why, and move on.

TuefelHundenIV

Sign date and notorize drafts in physical form.

Tropes is useful.  It s more then just spot the pattern it is describing how the pattern is applied and it's various components. 

Tropes are the parts.  Works are the pattern.

MoeDantes

I could be dickish... but I don't feel like it. KITTIES FOR EVERYONE!

GLORIOUSLeader

But I want ponies.

OP: Delete it if it bugs you so much. 

MoeDantes

You're the second person to say that. Delete what exactly?

DonZabu

They kind of blew me off:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=12906518810A05691500&page=37#912

GLORIOUSLeader

The story. If you really don't trust the people, go to another dedicated site and ask.

Though you have little to worry about, considering the fact that the thread is evidence you cam up with the idea before the plagiarizer. 

All Nines

Ah, Writer's Block. I mostly dislike it because I can't shake the overly-harsh opinion that none of them can write worth a damn when I could just find something else to do instead, rather than look back and ponder over it.

I only stay in "Minimum word counts" because pumping out 300 words a day takes precious little effort, and I have someone else waiting on me to make sure I get the work done.

Deboss

it really doesn't have any utility function whatsoever

Neither does art, but that doesn't stop it from existing.

MoeDantes

Wrong on that count, Deboss. The idea that "art has no purpose" is a sad product of western culture, which tends to have an "I don't understand what its for, therefore its not for anything" attitude.

Anyone who has ever attempted art knows that it is at least good for the person actually doing the art, since it teaches you to think about things and notice details. Remember that episode of Avatar the Last Airbender Where Sokka's swordmaster makes him draw a waterfall after looking for only five seconds? Real samurai did that shit, and that's exactly why.

So its good for the person who makes it, and then he gets to turn around and make a dime off of it too! Where's the lack of utility again?

Nova

They kind of blew me off:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=12906518810A05691500&page=37#919

DonZabu

Yeah, I saw that last night.

Schitzo

That's happened to me more than once, Zabu. They were much dickish about it as well.