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Formality in language.

ChagenChagen
edited 2011-04-27 09:36:33 in General
[tɕagɛn]
Most European languages seem to have a formal version of "you"--such as in German: "du" compared "Sie" (it's supposed to be capitalized, to distinguish the formal "Sie" from "sie" ("they"), as both use the same conjugation). I've always found this wierd, probably because English seems to be the only European Langauge not to have this distinction (or, it did, but lost it). Of other peculiar note, a lot of languages from around the world are losing formality, as the youth speaking them start to use less formal language and are more informal with others, even superiors (I'd probably end up defaulting to the polite form anyway). Except Japanese (and possibly other asian languages). Even accounting for their extreme focus on honor and politness, it seems strange how Japanese still even uses different forms for nouns just to denote politeness. You see all these crazy subcultures--Yankii, Gyaru, Otaku, etc--and everyone still is obsessed on being polite. It's always kinda interesting seeing how different cultures can be (though Japanese's focus on it can seem perplexing, especially the inherent misogyny/sexism in it). ....This topic has no real purpose. I was just reading a Japanese book and got some strange urge to make this. - Ak-48

Comments

  • HatterHatter
    Glaives are better.
    English does have a formal second person pronoun. It's "you." Our informal second person pronoun, "thou," was related to "du," "tu" and tu" in the same way, but it fell out of use.
  • ChagenChagen
    [tɕagɛn]
    "You" is used in informal context as well, so it's really neutral.
  • KhwarizmiKhwarizmi
    edited 2011-04-27 09:59:47
    Because you never know what you might see.
    It is nowadays.  Wasn't always.  English has evolved over time.

    Actually, there are still regions where "thou" sees usage.  The Forest of Dean in Gloucestershire is one.
  • LouieWLouieW
    edited 2011-04-27 22:23:06
    Loser
    I think formal language has its advantages. For example, I feel like it can help make it clearer that one respects someone else and I believe that it has the additional benefit of making it easier to distinguish friends from acquaintances and strangers in speech and writing. I suppose having different, "more polite" pronouns helps those purposes. I know very little about languages aside from English though so I am not totally sure about that.
  • inkblotinkblot
    edited 2011-04-27 16:04:33
    000
     ^^ I want to go there just for the novelty of it.
  • KhwarizmiKhwarizmi
    Because you never know what you might see.
    You'll have to be quick, it's on the way out.  Pretty sure only the older generation use it nowadays.
  • NoimportaNoimporta
    Of other peculiar note, a lot of languages from around the world are losing formality

    Language accommodates to the needs of the people, society itself has become much less formal over time, and language follows. I guess it would be funny to call people "vuestra merced", but I can live without it.
  • RottweilerRottweiler
    Inside, too dark to read
    At the same time, I think words like "sir" and "ma'am" can reinforce
    harmful unequal relationships between people when everyone should be
    treating each other as equals.

    Why?
  • GelzoGelzo
    edited 2011-04-27 18:05:19
    Pony Sleuth
    For practical reasons, we can't all be equals in every environment, and I think it can sometimes be helpful to communicate deference.

    As much as it can be annoying, there's a reason people in service jobs are sometimes trained to be really polite. It can help to disarm people and calm them down.

    Oh, and in Japanese, the REALLY polite forms are I think typically reserved for people working in said service positions or in similar situations. It's not something that's very common, and even native speakers have to be trained to use it properly. My teacher mentioned something about a poll of native speakers regarding their opinion of this form, and IIRC the consensus was that it was something they hated but recognized as important.
  • LouieWLouieW
    edited 2011-04-27 22:23:18
    Loser
    Rottweiler,
    Why?

    Sorry, it was stupid of me to put that in there. I edited it out.

    Noimporta,
    Language
    accommodates to the needs of the people, society itself has become much
    less formal over time, and language follows. I guess it would be funny
    to call people "vuestra merced", but I can live without it.

    I think that is probably true though I suppose some spin that as "kids these days never give their elders enough respect." Your mileage may vary on whether or not that makes any sense.


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