There are no serious western cartoons meant for mature audiences

Turtle

This sort of bugs me too.  Not that I don't love the DCAU and Avatar as much or more than the next guy, but they're still aimed at kids and no amount of radar evasion will change who their fundamental target audience is.

At the same time, I don't want to see an animated series that throws "adult" stuff in there just for the sake of being "adult."  A lot of filmmakers nowadays, for example, seem to feel the need to shoehorn a sex scene into any and every movie rated PG-13 or higher, regardless of whether it actually benefits the narrative.  Why they do it isn't really a mystery, but it's still bothersome.

Noimporta

What's the western analogue to Eureka Seven?

Unfortunately, nothing.

What's the western analogue to Kiddy Grade?

Fortunately, nothing.

What's the western analogue to Noir?

Watching paint dry.

There are a few series that would meet your requirements:  Moral Orel, Aeon Flux, 12 oz. Mouse... really, when it comes to matching most anime's "maturity", Beast Wars/Machines, The DCAU, Shadow Raiders, etc. count too. It's true that they are in the minority, though... it might have to do with the fact that animation in Japan is much cheaper, a serious show with western production values could be cheaper to do in Live Action.

Old Saturn

I have an unrealistic dream of making 2D animated films that are aimed t young adults and up. I don't know if I'll ever get there, but if I do, watch out for me. I hope to go to MICA and major in film art and animation so.

Wicked223

See, while I do enjoy looking to animé to satisfy my desire for visual storytelling interesting settings and plots, I am not sure if I count as an animé fan. I feel no special attachment to Japan at all, and I do not go OMFG for sushi/sashimi/ramen/katanas/kimonos/gratuitousJapanese/etc.. I also don't share many traits of the fandom, such as tastes for cosplay, the moë aesthetic, or desire to learn Japanese. In fact, I tend to be less interested in series that have a lot to do with Japanese culture, and am most drawn to culture-neutral content.

These things are endemic to a small subset of the fandom at best, and they hardly preclude you from being an anime fan.

BaronGrackle

Incidentally, I am likely to go cuckoo for sushi/sashimi, and I have been known to enjoy ramen, and I loves me some katana. But most of that is TMNT influence.

ninjaclown

Anyone watched Tartakovsky's animated prologue for Priest? It's pretty beast.

DonZabu

>See, while I do enjoy looking to animé to satisfy my desire for visual storytelling interesting settings and plots, I am not sure if I count as an animé fan. I feel no special attachment to Japan at all, and I do not go OMFG for sushi/sashimi/ramen/katanas/kimonos/gratuitousJapanese/etc.. I also don't share many traits of the fandom, such as tastes for cosplay, the moë aesthetic, or desire to learn Japanese. In fact, I tend to be less interested in series that have a lot to do with Japanese culture, and am most drawn to culture-neutral content.

So basically, you're terrified of being associated with those clowns? Weak, dude. You're letting the anime haters push you around.

glennmagusharvey

> And why is it that they all have to be comic book adaptations and all of them have to be superhero themed?

This isn't a big surprise; many animé series originate from manga as well.

> Quantum Leap

Isn't this live-action?

> Aeon Flux

And it was recently made into a live-action movie, right?



> Fortunately, nothing.

Okay, fine, I was asking for it by mentioning it like that.

> it might have to do with the fact that animation in Japan is much
cheaper, a serious show with western production values could be cheaper
to do in Live Action.

Hmm, interesting thought.  Would this be due to:
(1) existing dominance of live-action infrastructure,
(2) existing audience for live-action being larger than existing audience for animation, or
(3) intention to prevent the rise of animation?

Perhaps a point to ponder.  That said, it's likely the first two, and not the third.

> Incidentally, I am likely to go cuckoo for sushi/sashimi, and I have
been known to enjoy ramen, and I loves me some katana. But most of that
is TMNT influence.

They drew me to pet turtles and pizza.  Heh.

> So basically, you're terrified of being associated with those clowns?
Weak, dude. You're letting the anime haters push you around.

There goes my wonderful narrative...

Well, it's more like this.  I may like animé, but I don't want to be seen as part of the purported animé fan dominance of TV Tropes, and I don't want to look categorically insensitive to media from my own country...because it's true that I'm not insensitive; I just happen to favor genres that Japanese animation producers have been more prolific at producing.

DonZabu

>Well, it's more like this. I may like animé, but I don't want to be seen as part of the purported animé fan dominance of TV Tropes, and I don't want to look categorically insensitive to media from my own country...because it's true that I'm not insensitive; I just happen to favor genres that Japanese animation producers have been more prolific at producing.

You say "I don't want to be a part of this purportedly bad movement", I say "fuck what other people think". They're all spelled the same on the cards.

Vorpy

I actually don't give a shit about it not fitting into dumb categories actually. Aeon Flux is not an anime. Along with that one show about King Alexander, that had a lot of codpieces.

Noimporta

But the Alexander series was actually an anime, it just has the same character designs as AF.

Vorpy

It does? What was it's name? I could never find it again.

Noimporta

Reign: The Conqueror

Vorpy

Ah, thankku.

FrodoGoofballCoTV

I present for your consideration:
* The Lord of the Rings animated films
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSHLGnexe-w
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohw78b1TTFY
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7kbRTqCFDw

* Flight of Dragons
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn9xV6_yyG0

* Ralph Bashki's Wizards
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qebG8_AimPI

* Cool World
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GACDzexAdV0

* Sinkha
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_nKuggJm9g

* Heavy Metal
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGwn_0k_TQo

* Gondahar
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3FsASNavdU

vacasama

Soo, where's Fire and Ice?

FrodoGoofballCoTV

^ Huh.  Didn't know about that one.  Looks interesting.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz-yLWGaIxM

glennmagusharvey

@DonZabu: Well, if I'm trying to be some sort of decently-well-respected voice of reason when it comes to policy debates about the TV Tropes wiki and forums, it does help to be able to distance oneself from bad mental images and their associated suggestions of bias, whether founded or unfounded in reality.

@FrodoGoofballCoTV: Ooh, sweet; I will be checking them out later.

BaronGrackle

Cool World doesn't count. It's live action combined with animation, with comedic elements to boot. Plus, Who Framed Roger Rabbit does everything better.

AXavierB

I'd love to see more shows like Avatar. Proof that western cartoons aren't all about cheap humor and no character development.

vacasama

^^ I seem to prefer the way Ralph Bakshi draws women.