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General ISIS Discussion

edited 2014-10-14 19:37:48 in Politics

A summary of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) crisis by Zack Beauchamp (I may also add other informational sources suggested):


17 things about ISIS and Iraq you need to know


How the US, its allies, and its enemies all made ISIS possible.


Summarizing the second article:



  • The Sunni-Shia conflict is the core of ISIS.

  • Former Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki ran a Shia regime oppressive to Sunni Muslims, who once held power when Saddam Hussein ruled.

  • The US War in Iraq sparked the Sunni-Shia civil war, leaving al-Qaeda, which ISIS was formerly a part of, to flourish.

  • Syrian President Bashar al-Assad was more focused on punishing more moderate rebels, and thus ISIS became the strongest rebel force out of the civil war.

  • Iran, as a Shia nation, was hugely supportive of Maliki and Assad, unintentionally fueling Sunni resentment.

  • Gulf nations Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Kuwait funded ISIS with oil money. ISIS now makes it money off oil racketeering.


So in briefer words, short-sighted realpolitik ends up creating your own enemy. Somehow, no one has managed to learn this lesson after everything Cold War mentality spawned.

Comments

  • I stumbled upon this, which seems to be a news report on ISIS members remaking their propaganda vids in GTA Online:


    I speak only a few words kebab so I for the life of me wouldn't know if it's legit, but it wouldn't surprise me at all. The tech guys are probably Westernized as fuck. 

  • "you duck spawn, refined creature, you try to be cynical, yokel, but all that comes out of it is that you're a dunce!!!!! you duck plug!"

    Recently I've read some story about two girlies (Muslim, Bosniak, Austrian) who came up with the idea of experiencing a once-in-a-lifetime adventure for Allah and ran away to join ISIS. Some pregnancies and forced marriages later, it doesn't live up to the hype. A smuggled letter later it turns out that, sorry Winnetou, the Austrian government doesn't feel like extracting them is a top priority.

  • "you duck spawn, refined creature, you try to be cynical, yokel, but all that comes out of it is that you're a dunce!!!!! you duck plug!"

    Come to think of it, it's kinda funny. ISIS seems to draw even less attention than that Ferguson cop stuff did.


  • Come to think of it, it's kinda funny. ISIS seems to draw even less attention than that Ferguson cop stuff did.



    What news sources do you frequent?

  • "you duck spawn, refined creature, you try to be cynical, yokel, but all that comes out of it is that you're a dunce!!!!! you duck plug!"

    I mean, by now it's six posts in this thread and three are mine.

  • Might just be that there's less to discuss.  Pretty much everyone agrees that IS/ISIL/ISIS/Daesh are a bunch of horrible jerks who've taken advantage of a political power vacuum to claim territory and try to revert civilization back to a perverted fanon version of the Middle Ages, and get their strength in part from disgruntled youth who feel they have nothing better to do with their lives.

  • There's a lot to discuss, mostly about what should be done to deal with them, and how.

  • "you duck spawn, refined creature, you try to be cynical, yokel, but all that comes out of it is that you're a dunce!!!!! you duck plug!"

    ^^ Muslim nerds are the worst kind of nerds, seems like. Makes me wonder how well Nazis and Bolsheviks did with that sort of demographic.


    I'm joking, but seriously, most impressionable youths just settle down for some fashionable shit like vegetarianism.

  • edited 2014-10-21 13:47:54

    These aren't just impressionable youths, though.  These are impressionable youths who are suddenly thrust into a society (or lack thereof) consisting of no power structure, conflicting national identity possibilities, a (presumably) completely broken or nonexistent economy, and near-complete lack of educational or employment opportunities.


     


    At least, this is the sense I've gotten.

  • I think one of you is talking about locals and the other about folks from the West who go on jihad. 

  • All that really matters is we could be friends~☆

    I don't really comment on political stuff because I probably don't know as much as I'd like to think I do, since I don't really try and follow it unlike I do with like... weaboo stuff or finance stuff (anyone wanna talk about Tesco's share drop?)



    Pretty much everyone agrees that IS/ISIL/ISIS/Daesh are a bunch of horrible jerks who've taken advantage of a political power vacuum



    Well the thing is ISIL aren't this thing that's taking advantage of X. ISIL are kind of a side effect of the general politics in the Middle East where sectarianism rules over parties. There, you are who you are and you fight for that regardless of anything else and it's kind of been stuck in that circle for a very long time.


    I kind of think the West might be doing it on purpose for whatever reasons, because there was very little support for the Arab Uprisings from the West aside from in Libya (where the main problem wasn't sectarianism but general dictator stuff but post-NATO intervention that's become a thing there too).


    ISIL wouldn't have grown into a huge thing if the West had nipped the Assad government in the bud but they didn't. They allowed Syria to become a breeding ground for the next fringe radical group, while also allowing an oppressive dictatorship. I guess they could have not seen it coming, but they definitely should have since government is supposed to be filled with people 5000x better than me at these things and everyone saw the radical groups emerge. ISIL was just lucky enough to be at the right places and right times to recruit people and merge with other fringe radical groups.


    And then we come to why groups like ISIL are able to grow, aside from the obvious issue of sectarianism/racism/whatever. People are betrayed over and over by sectarian governments that the West supports and turns a blind eye to and the West itself basically destroys the Middle East over and over (It's like in finance with the repeating history of recessions, everybody says they've learned and will do things differently and then they just don't because they are literally the big guys who can't be policed because they are the police).


    These people join groups like ISIL because they feel it's all they can do.


    And then we come to the West's agenda in "fighting" ISIL. It's the latest notch in the "War on Terror", caused  by the War on Terror itself. The West picks and chooses who it helps, it decides who the "villain" is and this time it's ISIL. Of course, Americans are sick of War at the moment (but probably won't be when we're ten months in to the news beating "ISIL is the devil" into their heads) so right now the US is playing PR by just sending weapons.


    Weapons that are landing in the hands of sectarian fighters. Not by accident, on purpose. And that means basically even if ISIL is defeated they are basically already creating the next radicalised group.

  • "you duck spawn, refined creature, you try to be cynical, yokel, but all that comes out of it is that you're a dunce!!!!! you duck plug!"

    To be honest, if Libya could go sectarian after the fall of may-his-spellings-be-many, so could Syria. Lybia at least is much less of an ethnoreligious mosaic.

  • All that really matters is we could be friends~☆

    That just means NATO should've stayed to finish what they started and help set up a proper government.

  • "you duck spawn, refined creature, you try to be cynical, yokel, but all that comes out of it is that you're a dunce!!!!! you duck plug!"

    Some media report says Western jihadists are getting disillusioned with ISIS. You know, join Jihad, see the world, spread Islam... then it turns out there's no momma to do laundry, and iPods won't work. 

  • They were probably expecting a free wife to do it for them. 

  • Gallina seráfica

    Join the jihadist army, they said...

  • "you duck spawn, refined creature, you try to be cynical, yokel, but all that comes out of it is that you're a dunce!!!!! you duck plug!"

    You know what guys, I've gotta admit I have some sort of a morbid fascination with them jihadists. Almost cheering them, in some twisted way. But bear with me.

    I mean, I've read a bit on history, and it's like, there's this warlord, he figures it's gonna be fun to take over the world - or like, there's been a political upheaval in some region, rebels spring up, ideologically-driven factions decide to strike it out... you know.

    It's like the same kind of shit I'm enjoying in stories about the fall of the Western Roman Empire, or the Russian Civil War. That kind of stuff. Rulers are toppled, nations are forged, so on. Except this time I'm reading about it in A3 format and it feels significantly more awkward to detach yourself from all the "crushing enemies, hearing the lamentations" stories.

  • "you duck spawn, refined creature, you try to be cynical, yokel, but all that comes out of it is that you're a dunce!!!!! you duck plug!"
    Fun fact: king Abdullah of Jordan actually isn't personally taking part in bombing runs on ISIS targets.
  • "you duck spawn, refined creature, you try to be cynical, yokel, but all that comes out of it is that you're a dunce!!!!! you duck plug!"
    An interesting insight into the ISIS way of thinking. The text is a couple of months old, so you might have read it, but it's quite an interesting read. I wonder how would the message change if it was written today.
  • edited 2015-11-29 05:42:32
    ISIS is doing a lot of recruiting in Egyptian prisons.

    If you're broken down by regular torture like that, you're probably not less likely to become radicalized....

    The West picks and chooses who it helps

    Yup, and when the West takes a side, it's only natural that the people on the other side (or people who fall victim to the inevitable collateral damage) will see the West as the enemy.
  • ☭Unstoppable Sex Goddess☭
    Ultimately will ISIS actually accomplish their goals or are they just raising hell as they spiral downwards?
  • Barring a collapse of civilization, they likely won't achieve their goals of setting up a medieval-style "caliphate".

    But they will certainly cause a good deal of bullshit in the meantime though.
  • "you duck spawn, refined creature, you try to be cynical, yokel, but all that comes out of it is that you're a dunce!!!!! you duck plug!"
    They're a bit too ambitious for a total success. They claim like a half of the world. The real issue is whether they manage to stay in power in the long term, which is more manageable, if still doubtful.
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