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Comments
This strikes me as a bit of a "moving the goalposts" argument. I don't know exactly what "awful shit" you're referring to specifically, and maybe it did actually happen, but if they've stopped? Well, good. That's a good thing, and nobody should delude themselves into thinking it isn't.
And if you're really against awful shit, then maybe you should be against this as well:
>posted by Faraci, retweeted by Bob Chipman
>both are also overweight dorks with ill-advised facial hair
I'm fine with any amount of mutually consensual insult-throwing, but going after looks is utterly pointless as both sides of the argument look exactly the same: it's all clone stamp hipster glasses+ringbeard(see avatar), bad dye jobs and skin that needs to see more sunlight.
It's telling that a lot of the same people that advocate for a greater tolerance of people's appearances and fashion choices are the same types who will turn around and make fun of people's appearance/fashion choices as soon as it's someone they dislike.
"We've been under a lot of pressure lately and I'm quite angry about what they're doing to my friends. The fact that you prioritize shutting down my mean remarks while others are getting rape threats shows where your sympathies lie. If you're going to advocate for more civility, why don't you start by reporting all those harassing Twitter accounts?"
*continues making shoops and getting into Twitter slapgfights "because my report limit for today is full"*
I really do actually wish people would stop getting mad at Zoe Quinn / Depression Quest. It's clear by now that she and her work aren't anywhere close to the actual problems, so it's intensely frustrating to see assholes act like she's such a big deal. She isn't. She never was.
They've simply expanded the number of targets.
Well, well, it seems that Slate has decided to say something rather contrarian. Interesting since they're very progressive and normally you'd expect them to side with the "gaming is dead" folks for the same reasons.
Slate is nothing if not contrarian for clicks.
>a similarly obtuse piece of academic argot
The worst thing is that I don't know if they do this ironically or unintentionally.
The Phil Fish thing, all the harassment of Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkeesian, etc. Most of the stuff that those "gamers are dead" articles were responding to can be traced back to /v/.And sure, it's good that /v/ isn't advocating harassment, I guess. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. Just that stopping doesn't excuse what they did in the first place.
> Yet in a matter of weeks, this progress has, at least to some extent of the public eye, been reversed.
Wait, how?
I'm sorry, I have essentially the same opinion of gamers as a whole as I did a few weeks ago before this gigantic shitstorm broke.
Basically, there are a lot of reasonable people who don't care, some reasonable people who do care, and some jerks who think they're right.
Boy, that sounds a lot like society as a whole.
I think we have a right (not a god given one though because he doesn't exist) to call ourselves 'gamers' Like what kind of people can just barge in and start allying the word "gamer" with the word "misogynist" or "rapist" or whatever they're calling us, people who are fascistic thats who. I remember when the term gamer was fist coined back in the mid 80s and believe me, people actually knew what the connotation meant; "people who play fucking video games" duh. As this is just an attempt for attention whoring feminists to grab onto something and corrupt it for their own gain, I think we should democratically stand up and tell them to fuck off and stay away from something that has developed quite nicely without them. I'm telling you, the end game; social justice video games, the polka dotted elephant sister of Christian video games, lame ass stuff that puts the message before the game, is not going to be pretty. I think gamers should form a united front and take a stand against overly PC non gamers and tell them to go back to complaining on the internet about something else.
fixed that for you
Also, that's a good lot of slippery-slope you're presuming there. Because to be honest I think that all this nonsense and arguing is just a blip on the radar and videogames will gradually become part of mainstream US culture just like the TV has. At that point, there will be no point in the "gamer" label anymore since it'll just become something else people DO.
Well, there might be a "game geek" label like there's a "TV show geek" or "[genre] geek" label nowadays. That's basically what "gamer" means nowadays to non-gamers. But assuming that the mental image of a gamer continues to diversify, that's going to stop being used anyway.
I was going to say something, but I don't need to.
stop stealing our terminology you sexist ass
Hey Brew? You're not helping.
Anyway, I've come across an excellent blog post on the subject that I think gives an excellent summary of what I feel is the real problem here.
That's what several of us have been saying this entire thread. And after the first time I made that point (albeit more aggressively phrased), you accused me of "appeal to hypocrisy".
I'm not helping because I want the gamers with dignity to be separated from people who utilize the "gamer" label the same way The Big Bang Theory utilized the "nerd" label? Sheesh man, I just want complete separation of quality gaming and attention whores. Its kinda like when you eat dinner and your peas are touching your chicken casserole, that shit is intolerable. I want Zoe Quinn and her journalistic harem to go play pretend dress up gamers in one corner while the real gamers get to play their games in peace. Because in the end, that's what I'm here for. I believe people should speak up and fight for what is right so they're allowed to relax and play games. Don't you love it how a pastime has now become something to crusade for? I just don't get it.
I'd just like to say, I don't think these corruption allegations have much weight to them anyway
You're right, and I'm sorry about that. What I said to you was said in the heat of passion and anger, and in doing so I recognize that I'd said might have been wrong.
I am not without error and I am not unwilling to recognize when I've made a mistake, so again, I'm sorry.
First you said that the supposedly proper definition of the word "gamer" is simply somebody who plays and enjoys video games. Which is the way it ought to be in an ideal world.
But if that's the case, why separate "real gamers" from "fake gamers"?
^^I appreciate your apology, and I'm also sorry for the complicity accusation. Honestly, it's a heated topic in general, so it's fine as long as we don't leave bad feelings lingering afterward. But I do think that most of us are closer in agreement than we initially thought.
Simple, Zoe Quinn and so many other people in the industry, use the status of being a gamer like its a fashion accessory. Sarksleazian made her whole career out of pretending to be a gamer and using issues like Princess Peach being kidnapped (something that happens triannually in Nintendo games) as stepping stones to said career of complaining about it. I kind of wish I came up with the idea of pointing out the obvious in Nintendo games and claiming its misogyny and rackin in the Benjamins but then again, I'd have to touch a Nintendo game to start with (I kid!)
Case in point, these people trivialize gaming. Its not about the gameplay, its about the misogyny, its not about the fun, its about the money. Its kind of like the current music industry but no one has the balls to complain about that (and thats another story)
>implying this shitstorm isn't the most fun we've had in videogames in years
Also, have you tried to actually bank in on the controversy surrounding this with your Patreon? It hasn't done anything since April and your offer to draw strawman comics should appeal to some people involved in this whole debacle.
I should man, I should. But that was kind of a partnership with the Shitty Webcomics Tumblr and my former artist, who unlike me, has a career based entirely around overly PC crap. Now, I'm just trying to reincarnate my comic to tackle issues like Zoe Queen but finding an artist who's consistent is tough. But I digress, most social justice fairies won't even think about hiring me because I am a "dudebro" (whatever in darwinism that is)
Sorry, I haven't touched a Nintendo game since the N64 era, they had so real classics but man are they stagnant and more geared towards old ladies. You played one Mario game, you've played one whole brand of Mario game.
Anyway, I'm more a PC gamer (Warcraft, League of Legends style goodness) and X-box. Mostly stuff more geared towards the you know, adult market.
But I digress once again, because I do find enjoyment out of video games that isn't screeching about how misogynistic they are or starting a scandal just to get famous off them. No, I play video games when I want to relax and take a load off. I think that is the pure essence of gaming. Actual enjoyment from the medium.
In fact, I think that if we take your logical point to its extreme, it would seem that you are totally disqualifying the entire field of cultural analysis by completely separating cultural manifestations from their social contest - seeing them as something that ought only to be unquestionably enjoyed without ever wondering about where some of the stuff in there even came from.
If not, you are probably the one actually trivializing gaming by reducing it to something outside of, or even below, the sphere of cultural analysis.
I mean, you can definitely enjoy playing games while realizing that some of the stuff in them are problematic. And games are not alone in that - the entirety of modern culture is tainted by oppressive constructs, and all mainfestations of it deserve the same critical analysis.
The thing I'm gonna say about all this is simply: Do you think I'm gonna play through the whole Super Mario 64 game, troubled by how problematic the storyline is about some women getting kidnapped not by a man but by an oversized Ninja Turtle? Of course not. Not even the dudes in Japan who made it are evil misogynists, they just read too much fairy tales or I dunno...smoked too many mushrooms.
Thing is, what kind of stereotype is Mario perpetuating anyway? Members of royalty need to get higher security so they won't be kidnapped by reptiles? See what I mean about how this is all just an attempt at making a career out of complaining about misogyny? Its all ridiculous when it comes to the pipe dreams (no pun intended) of Japanese entertainment.
While I am not keen on how Sarkeesian does what she does, acting like all of her points are invalid because they are common is outright illogical. If anything, the fact that such a large proportion of female character representation in video games (until recently) is weirdly objectifying or dis-empowering should be seen as troublesome. After all, shouldn't video games be for everyone who can play them?
Until the 1990s, video games were marketed roughly equally to men and women, but as the market shifted, the vogue in gaming became more, shall we say, testosterone-infused. It's not like women weren't gamers back in the day - hell, my granddad bought my mom a Commodore 64 so they could both play text adventures; she was a really intense arcade player, too - and it's certainly not like there's no market there now. But a lot of big game companies are still stuck in that weird nerd bubble where women are mysterious creatures that wouldn't go on dates with them in high school. It's unsurprising, but really dumb.
And let's face it: Even if you think our friend on YouTube is a hack, are violent rape threats really a sensible response to someone complaining about sublimated sexism in your community? Or acceptable at all? Is there no sense of decency here, or at least irony?
Anyway, I'm out. Nice seeing you, Ironweaver. I'll drop you a line on Facebook.
The "fairy tales" part was spot on. The problematic aspect of the whole thing isn't something unique to Mario at all, but is merely the billionth iteration of the really fucking ancient "damsel in distress" trope, where it's the damsel herself who's the reward owed to the hero for the perils he's gone through to get her - objectification of the worst possible caliber. Sarkeesian and many other pointed Mario out merely as probably the most famous video game example of how a trope which has its roots in the days when sex slavery was still a normal and widespread thing still exists and is often unchallenged.
Also hey there JHM.
You know, I'm not going to ponder the Mario fandom since that's really not my bag but isn't Princess Peach in love with Mario or else she wouldn't approach him to kiss him at the end of the game. She could just be all like "thanks for rescuing me douchebag" and that be it. I don't think the games have ever promised you that if you beat it "you get a woman." Fuck I don't even think most fairy tales are about sexual slavery but who knows, London Bridges is about people dying and so is Ring Around the Rosy, so you never know.