IJBM: Achievements for video games

glennmagusharvey

I don't like them.

Either I have to go out of my way to do them, in which case it seems to emphasize the added value of taking my time to go out of my way to do something, and makes me want to optimize my play-route and try to achieve everything in one go.  And then I get stuck on the game because I really want to beat boss G with weapon M in under W minutes but I just can't but if I don't do it now then I'll have to get it on another playthrough which means wasting another 10 or 20 hours or whatever.

Or they are "pointless" achievements that you get just by playing through the main game mode.  Like "enter your first dungeon" or "reach level 10".

Yeah I know some other people like them.  And some of them are maybe useful to find out how many people have actually been playing your game.  Since in general most people have no incentive to chieve-cheat (at least on Steam, I've heard you get some sorts of perks on XBLA or GFWL or something for getting chieves...which is even more horrible because it validates that "added value" idea I mentioned above).

Bastion

I like them for a few different reasons. The ones unlocked over the course of normal gameplay help serve as milestones for various parts of the story, while ones that exist only for doing specific things (50 kills with a shotgun, etc.) either serve to distinguish your individual playstyle or give you a reason to branch out.



My favorite implementation was, as so many things, City of Heroes, where any achievement you got could be displayed under your name as a title. I wish Steam had something like that, although I don't know what that would be like.

glennmagusharvey

Perhaps the problem is that it's become another completionism thing -- at least it's often portrayed as such -- and it feels less like "this is just optional nonsense for hardcore players" and more like "You haven't finished the game until you've done all these things".  Which I guess is along the lines of using this as a cheap way to lengthen a game...

Nyktos

I like achievement systems better when there aren't points attached.

Bee

I prefer when they give you some incentive, even if it is just something silly and cosmetic.

I also prefer when the achievements are for doing difficult and/or weird shit instead of grind or automatic story moding.  World of Warcraft had some really good boss achievements from Northrend onward.  Like, kill all of the Four Horsemen within 15 seconds of each other, baiting a boss to kill their own minions, or letting the boss's buffs get ridiculous.  Of course, they also had a lot of pointless grind, so...

Schitzo

Yeah, I think these sort of cheapen a game too. They go from "suggested for you to do" to "PLEASE KEEP PLAYING THIS GAME LONGER I'LL BE YOUR FRIEND PLEASE????"

Raydere

I second Bee's preferred idea of achievements.

To me, achievements are simply a progress indicator for the most part. Not to mention some achievements are outright silly and trivial; I can name a few games where you get an achievement for simply starting the fucking game.

Also, I try to be a "play however you want" type of person around other players, but...

Stormtroper

The ones I don't like are those that ask you to complete your normal objectives in a particular way without making it any more difficult, repetitive or unorthodox, thus simply getting in the way. If an achievement asks me to do something difficult/grindy/exceptional, I can decide to set out to do it and see if I earn being told that I did what the game dared me to do, or decide not do it and play the game as normal, but when completing a particular achievement is all about remembering that the achievement exists, well, having to remember it is annoying, and having it uncompleted only because you didn't (care to?) remember it is also annoying.

Bee

I thought it was funny but kind of obnoxious that the Megaman 9/10 trophies were all silver for ridiculous shit like a no-damage run of the full game.  Compare to something like Tomb Raider: Guardian of Light, where you get a silver for starting a co-op game.

Raydere

Achievements for exceptionally difficult challenges (e.g. one-crediting an arcade(-style) game) honestly deserve triple-digit gamerscore. We live in a world where there is a game wher you can get a particular game's full set of achievements during the tutorial.

Then again gamerscore on XBL is an EXP meter to me and nothing else. I know my games well enough to determine what is fistpump-worthy. Plus said 1CC achievements can often be done by tweaking the hell out of the game settings, which defeat the purpose of them.

glennmagusharvey

Or we could just get rid of gamerscore.

It's bad enough that the existence of achievements cause completionists to pull their hair out trying to do them.

Thankfully, Steam does not give anything for achievements other than a shiny little decoration.  If it gave any more reward for achievements, it would just make things worse.

Monsoon

Achievements used to get on my nerves, but I guess I gave up and learned to love the proverbial bomb.  When I play a game that has trophies or achievements, I'll always look at the list and make judgement calls.  "That one looks doable so I may as well try to get it; hm, this one might not be worth it; FUCK that shit."

Bee

I'm really enjoying the ones for Toki Tori 2.  There's the usual "do everything" stuff, but there's also fun party tricks like "catch a frog in his own bubble", "get two porcupines to ram each other", or "kill all the birds in this level".