Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
If you have an email ending in @hotmail.com, @live.com or @outlook.com (or any other Microsoft-related domain), please consider changing it to another email provider; Microsoft decided to instantly block the server's IP, so emails can't be sent to these addresses.
If you use an @yahoo.com email or any related Yahoo services, they have blocked us also due to "user complaints"
-UE
If you use an @yahoo.com email or any related Yahoo services, they have blocked us also due to "user complaints"
-UE
Exit Polls Show Italy May Face Political Gridlock
2013-02-25 18:25:14
edited 2013-02-25 18:25:14 in Politics
I don't even call it violence when it's in self defence; I call it intelligence.
Berlusconi ahead in Senate:
Exit Polls Show Italy May Face Political Gridlock
After voting booths closed in Italy on Monday, initial polls showed that Pier Luigi Bersani's center left had established a strong lead in the lower house. But Silvio Berlusconi had a narrow lead in the Senate, which could lead to political gridlock and unsettle markets.
The center-left alliance led by Pier Lugi Bersani appears to have won a clear majority in the Italian lower house of parliament, the Chamber of Deputies, which would enable it to form a government. But it may fail to clinch a majority in the Senate upper house, according to initial polls taken after voting stations closed at 3 p.m. CET on Monday.
One poll for Sky television showed Bersani at 35-37 percent in the lower house, well ahead of Silvio Berlusconi's center-right at 29-31 percent, while comedian Beppe Grillo's anti-establishment movement was in third place. Bersani had pledged to continue the budget consolidation policies of Mario Monti, whose centrist alliance scored just 8 to 10 percent, according to the poll.
European capitals and financial markets have been worried that the election won't produce a clear outcome, resulting in political gridlock and fresh instability in the euro zone's third-largest economy after Germany and France. Their fears may be confirmed.
Projections from an early vote count showed Berlusconi slightly ahead in the Senate. The media magnate aims to win enough power in the Senate to paralyze a center-left government and block austerity policies that he railed against in the election campaign. Italyurgently needs reforms to cope with its public debts of almost 130 percent of GDP, and to boost it's long-term growth outlook.
As news of Berlusconi's gains came in, the benchmark spread between Italian 10-year bonds and their German equivalent widened from below 260 basis points to above 280 and the Italian share index lost previous gains. The DAX German stock market index halved its gains. The euro fell more than a cent to below €1.32.
A projection by the Piepoli Institute based on a sample of early results showed Berlusconi's coalition ahead in the Senate race with 31 percent against 29.5 percent for Bersani's coalition. According to the Tecne institute, Berlusconi's group was ahead with 31 percent to 29.7 percent.
Berlusconi had managed to whittle down Bersani's lead in pre-election voter surveys by promising to cut taxes and repay revenues from an unpopular real estate tax imposed by Monti last year as part of austerity policies aimed at making Italy's public finances sustainable.
In November 2011, when scandal-plagued Berlusconi stepped down and made way for Monti's interim technocrat government, Italian 10-year bond yields were trading at record levels above seven percent. Economist Monti resigned in December 2012 after passing his second budget, but remains in charge until a new government is elected.
Goddamnit, Italy, get your shit together! Berlusconi again? Berlusconi, who has more corruption trials, sex scandals and Mafia connections than political expertise? And you vote for him again?
Hah. Resistance against austerity. Which of course translates to "Germany can pay". Why don't we leave Club Med hang out to dry?
Comments
Welcome to the United States! May I take your order*?
Note: Order may be taken but left unprocessed.
It's interesting to reflect on how things change in, oh, say, two thousand years. I guess Gaul and Germania got the last laugh, eh, Rome?
I wish I had something serious and of actual benefit to add, but I'm not knowledgable concerning Italy's recent dips into shit creek.
Wow, I thought the biggest problem they were having was low turnout ie nobody cared enough to vote.
I heard his base was older people and oh gods GMH's America parallel is accurate.
Yup. Deadlock.
Gah. How could this happen? Berlusconi was dead (well, politically)! And now he will use the Senate majority to block everything a potential new government does, simply as a matter of populism. So Italy is in economical trouble, but won't be able to get shit done.
And then the "Five Stars Movement"... I'm not one to just discredit unusual new parties. I support the Pirate Party here in Germany. But to me it seems Grillo simply is a clown, who only curses out the Italian political caste - which admittedly deserves it, but it's not like he offers any substantial political alternative. So, seeing he got a quarter of the vote and Berlusconi a third, it seems a clear majority of Italians... must have hit their head or something. But okay, maybe I'm just too sceptical and the Five Stars Movement will do some good. We'll see. The worst thing surely is Berlusconi's comeback of sorts.
I'm not sure about that, since he never really lost his popularity among the people for some reason as far as I can see. Though I kind of saw this coming ever since the technocrat quit.
IMO he's just a comedian who wanted to do something, but I'm not sure if "something" was "I have a plan to help" or "Screw this power to the people etc!"
Maybe it's just my foreign bias. When he was finally gone as PM it seemed to me even the Italian people had gotten sick of him by that point... but maybe I just got the impression because the rest of Europe had taken a collective breath of relief. Still, how can he be still popular? He's a sexist asshole, he employed underage prostitutes, he's in how many corruption scandals? And he so obviously uses his political power to suppress them, too! And the hints of mafia connections... those things are all in the open, how can he still be popular? Based on what? It's not like his terms were stellar successes politically, either. Are Italians really so enamoured with pure style?
The problem is his movement could do good, but... well, "I'm an alternative to the political class" is actually the same shtick Berlusconi uses, in a way. And I don't trust a movement that uses some of the language and stunts they do to be very serious. This again seems to be more style than substance - but unlike Berlusconi this isn't proven yet, so okay, let them get their chance, I guess. But I'm sceptical.
I'm not Italian, but I think I'd rather they elect an actual comedian than Silvio Berlusconi.
I think the other thing that helped him is that Italy has a bizarre bicameral parliamentary system with rules that make the Electoral College make sense.
He's also literally a fascist.But the thing is, you're assuming that sizeable fraction of the Italian voting public aren't themselves sexist fascists who wish they had Mafia connections and would sleep with seventeen-year-olds if they could get away with it.
If they aren't prostitutes, they can. The age of consent in Italy is 14, 16 if one person is in a position of power over the other.
Oh yeah, it's this shit again... Come on, tell me more. Last time I checked, "literally a fascist" actually didn't mean "someone I don't like who is further than me to political right". Surely you don't say that just because it's sure-fire way to show anyone you don't like in bad light.
Publicly praising Mussolini literal enough?Enough only for a slur. You said, "literally", and this is what irks me. I'd expect a lot more from a literal fascist. If I praised Stalin, it wouldn't automatically make me a radical Marxist-Leninist. Perhaps it is that thing about using "literally" for "figuratively", or the like.
Why are you playing Devil's Advocate for Berlusconi of all people?
Naaah, this time I'm just playing Grammar Nazi. I thought about advocating Berlusconi, because I've read some apologetic articles, but I found them too unreliable to mention.
Yes, because radical Marxist-Leninists don't praise Stalin. :P
I used the word "literal" to try and make it clear that I was referring to fascism-as-in-Mussolini rather than using it just as an insult, but apparently it didn't quite come off that way.
I should point out that the Mussolini remarks are not exactly a one-off thing. Maybe it's more fair to say that he's just delusional than that he's actually a fascist though.
...or whatever you kids call it these days...
edit: ^ ah.
Yeah that's what I meant with Italians (or at least a sizeable enough fraction of them) valuing style over substance. Valuing bad style, too, but most of all, I mean come on, even if they revere villains they should know having such a one as their political leader is simply bad for them!
But, come to think, that is an interesting parallel to the USA. It's a well known state of affairs in the USA how large parts of the lower and middle class vote against their economical interests (i.e., those parts who staunchly vote Republican
). And an important reason is that they see themselves as future millionaires. They don't realize that they'll forever be excluded from this elite, but they want to be part of that, and that surely means they can't be for reasonably high taxes for them! This admiration of Berlusconi seems to follow the same psychological principle... it doesn't matter that having such an egoistical person as political leader is against their own self-interest, they want to be such egoistical assholes, too, and hence vote for him, against their own self-interest.