Why "minimize to tray" is terrible

Central Avenue

This is not intuitive to me.  When I click the close button, I expect the program to close, not the window to simply be hidden.  In other words, I see "minimize to tray" as an offshoot of "minimize", which shouldn't be confused with "close".

Maybe it's just because I used Macs for a long time, but equating "closing this window" with "exiting the program" is unintuitive to me.

There seems to be a fundamental difference in the way we think of the Windows UI: It seems like people here see all tray icons as "minimized" windows (since clicking on them usually displays a window). I've always thought of them as something entirely separate. To me, taskbar buttons are for windows, while the tray is merely a way of saying "yo, I'm still running, but I don't need to show you anything right now." That is to say, I associate a tray icon with a program, not a window.

In any event, the message I'm getting here is "stick to Linux."

glennmagusharvey

Yeah, sounds like a Mac thing.

To be honest, if you could integrate better the task manager of Windows into the typical Windows OS user interface, you could do away with this problem.  You could do things like preloading programs you want to use without them taking up display or taskbar space, and you could also keep programs open without keeping their windows open.

You could also make people more aware of the little-known processes that are running on their computer.  Like, why do I have over ten svchost.exe processes going?  What are they doing there?

Central Avenue

I always figured relegating things like svchost.exe and csrss.exe to the "all processes" list was because anyone technical enough to be messing with them should already know where to find them. I can't imagine the nightmare of having to explain to my parents if operating system components with no immediately apparent effects were visible in the main task list.

"Alice, what's 'Client/Server Runtime Subsystem' and why is it always open?"

"That's, um, what makes Windows work."

"Well, how do I get rid of it?"

"Um, turn off your computer?"

glennmagusharvey

Yeah I guess that's a good thing, compared to say Win98 task manager.

And:

Now imagine if that telephone works exactly as you'd expect, but with one exception: if the phone number you're dialing ends in 7, it won't place the call unless you hold down the 7 key until you hear it start to ring. That's what "minimize to tray" is.

No, not quite.

What you mean is this:

For one phone, the "talk" button is beneath the numpad, a big green square button with the letters "TALK".

For another phone, the talk button is to the left of the numpad, a big green round button with a telephone handset symbol.

For a third phone, the talk button replaces the numpad when you've finished typing in your ten numbers.

For a fourth phone, the talk button is activated by the index finger on the reverse side of the phone case.

Central Avenue

Maybe I'm missing something. Surely a regular phone doesn't have a "talk" button? Having to press an extra button would trip me up just as much as having to hold down the 7.

Nova

Mobile phones do.

DYRE

I'm pretty sure one of my phones at home has a talk button.

glennmagusharvey

Talk buttons started appearing with cordless phones and then mobile phones.

Crimson

My landline has a talk button, but the reciever is deliberately designed to look like a 1997-ish cell phone.

Central Avenue

...Right. In the OP I specified "corded touch-tone phone" so I wasn't even thinking in terms of cordless and mobiles. Derp.

Saigyouji

Our corded phone has a talk button.

Central Avenue

...how does that even work? Do you have to press a button to get a dial tone after you pick up the receiver, or--wait, you're talking about a speakerphone button, aren't you?

Crimson

^No, you have the dial tone after you pick up the receiver. You press the talk button after you've entered the number to initiate the call.

Central Avenue

I think that would drive me insane. Is it too much to ask that it work like a normal phone? 

Crimson

If anything, a phone without a talk button is unusual, because they've been standard on all phones for the last 10 years or so. At least in the U.S.

glennmagusharvey

Yeah, that would be one more keystroke than a normal phone.  Three more if you count "on" and "off" for the phone.

Ponicalica

It generally only takes one click on a tray icon to make a window show up.

In fact, that seems to always be the behavior.

And I don't see any reason not to have all of your tray icons visible at all times.

That depends on the icon, I've found.  Some icons respond to a single-click.  Some icons respond to a double-click.  Some icons pull up a menu on a single-click.  Some icons pull up a menu on a right-click.  Some icons pull up different menus on left- and right-click.  Tray icons are poorly designed and thought out, most of the time.

 

Super Lazuli

ITT: Technology is weird.