Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
If you have an email ending in @hotmail.com, @live.com or @outlook.com (or any other Microsoft-related domain), please consider changing it to another email provider; Microsoft decided to instantly block the server's IP, so emails can't be sent to these addresses.
If you use an @yahoo.com email or any related Yahoo services, they have blocked us also due to "user complaints"
-UE
If you use an @yahoo.com email or any related Yahoo services, they have blocked us also due to "user complaints"
-UE
Comments
Someone wrote: "Can’t other people who are arrested in the capitol potentially be charged with her death?"
I remember that being a thing in Law & Order.
also more ENTIRE WORLD IS BAD SHITPOSTING
meanwhile, in Canada
was about to say more american innit, but you have me here
no place for a mighty warriorGROWN IN AMERICA IN LARGE AMOUNTS.unconfirmed but big if true
Remember, there does not exist a single criticism from socialists that they themselves aren't far worse at.
What I was looking for to rant at when I read that thread was the "whoa even [bad entity X] disapproves of [another bad entity Y]" that I see everywhere as a way of saying that Y is especially bad rather than a statement easily explained by X being (a) bold-faced hypocrite(s).
But as for something that's not derailing, I'm just going to add that I've been waiting for one of Glenn's links to be a joke about how 2021 is setting up to be even worse than 2020.
Besides that, I've been thinking that I should add something, but I'm not sure what, and of course I'm not being insightful by mentioning that this whole thing is stupid.
This is in addition to the person who died after being shot.
I expected one (or like, since it's you, three?) posts, but 51? Did you not sleep or anything?
Personally, I kind of hoped I'd get here before you'd posted at all, so I could address things properly, but I guess I'll just do it without replying to any of your posts first.
As (I hope, at least), I've said before, my position on this election was "Take the L, and try better next time" (though of course not with a Trump 2024 run, I just meant in general).
But, I will not lie and say peer pressure did not sway me into some variation of "Well, maybe". That is to say, maybe Trump should have fought, because people voted for him.
I even let it slide that it was a stance that goes against what I believe, in that you should never raise the feelings of anybody above what is most prudent politically or even above a minimum level of decorum.
I think I have decent political instincts, but I did hesitate applying them to Donald Trump because I'd been so floored in 2016 and then was floored again by what happened to me politically in late 2017-early 2018.
So, even though I personally thought "Accept it and let's move on", I was unwilling to put that out into the world, least of all when I thought about what that really meant for American policy going forward (ie hey 14w let his fweelings get in the way of things too).
However, after Dec. 14th, I frankly tuned out everything relating to Donald Trump's whatever, because I'd barely bought anything was going to happen before that day anyways.
Still, it was impossible to tune this stuff out, least of all in a mocking manner. The accounts I followed, at least, focused on the ridiculous antics of the various attorneys and major sychophants. Initially, it was Sidney Powell's Kraken, a thing so hyped it was a promise that could be equated with the political equivalent of a new Fortnite Season drop.
The problem with the Kraken was that it didn't exist, like, at all.
The political fallout of this that sat right in front of me yet I didn't see was a wave of MAGA influence-types I didn't pay attention to (because, despite whatever, I never came to social conservatism through Trump, which is probably an impossible trajectory anyway) started to turn against the Georgia election (this may seem unrelated but I swear it is) by claiming that since Loeffler, Perdue, and the GOP in general weren't fighting for Trump and his electoral fraud allegations, they didn't deserve their votes.
I thought this was a passing phase and that the accounts I did follow who were giving this steam by addressing it/calling it out as stupid were wasting time.
It was weird to learn that they weren't.
Well, this post is long, so I'll split it here.
(well, it was)
also my day basically went like this:
so I just ended up kinda live-posting the event
I think I've been kinda trying to tune him out this entire time he's been POTUS, but the conversation around me and/or various newsworthy items etc. keep shoving him back onto my radar.
Okay, so as Sidney Powell and her Kraken disappeared (because one of the major aspects of social media is being able to escape without consequences when the conditions are just right), a new major (therefore somewhat respectable) attorney came to represent this crowd that I continued to ignore; Lin Wood.
To me, this guy was just another Powell, except this one didn't even work for Trump at any point as far as I can see.
Personally, there were a lot of signs I ignored because I was just sick and tired of hearing about this election fraud thing. However, unlike Powell, Wood was quite the talker.
The insane talker.
Prominent theories he floated around were that Justice Kennedy didn't want to hear the Pennsylvania case because Bill Clinton had a picture/various records of Kennedy on Epstein's Creepy Ephepophile Island, and most jaw-dropping as of recently, that Mike Pence was going to be arrested for "treason" if he attempted to go forward with the certification vote, and would be replaced with somebody (can't remember who) who would magically... not certify the vote (forgetting that third in line, as far as I can see, is Nancy Pelosi, who would totally do it anyways and then cheer as Mike Pence got dragged away).
So, Lin Wood was crazy, that's half of everybody trying to get followers in the political sphere. The problem was that Lin Wood was followed. Despite how many times I was surprised by this, and how many times I saw political figures I followed get mauled by this guy's True Believers on social media and in article comment sections, I genuinely thought "oh, this too shall pass".
And that leads us to yesterday/today.
When I heard the Proud Boys had been banned from DC hotels a few days ago, I assumed whatever they'd been planning was another Million MAGA March thing. That is, despite not hearing about it at all even from the people I'll check occasionally but think are a bit fringe.
My feelings on the matter were "Hey, maybe don't ban people from hotels."
Turns out it was not that.
Despite what went on tonight, I stand by this statement in situations where I feel bans aren't in good faith. However, now that I know what happened, I have no idea what information the hotels had beforehand or what law enforcement had contacted them, so it may have been wholly justified.
So, in addition to the Proud Boys deciding to smash things (who, like, at least grant me the good faith of me explicitly saying they are street brawlers and that I don't support them), known white supremacists such as Nicholas Fuentes (who I mostly know for verbally assaulting Ben Shapiro's wife and children and being the first to go after the jugular whenever TPUSA does literally anything) took selfies of themselves vandalizing Nancy Pelosi's office.
I think the most important thing I need to say is that I do not condone political violence or rioting of any sort. It's bad, and almost more importantly than that it will danged make you look bad (though like, not if you're Nicholas Fuentes, because you permanently look bad anyways).
This day has basically ruined whatever good MAGA types had in their pocket or could have ever have. I watched Don Lemon for about 30m before I got out of bed and he was having a field day with every-danged-thing and I do not blame him (he's usually not this impressive a political pundit, but then again this type of easy A doesn't fall into your hands all too often). The movement known as "Trumpism", which frankly was more related to the man's tactics than the man himself, needs to find a new name ASAP.
I never thought that, literally days before he had to vacate the White House, there would be a real possibility of him being forced out of it via means like the 25th. I never thought this would be politically justifiable, but here we are.
But, most of all, I never thought that the year I discovered that this was not the end of history (2019) would be the one before it all just blew up.
former PA state representative Rick Saccone (R-PA-HD39)
current PA state senator Doug Mastriano (R-PA-SD33)
as well as a newly-elected state delegate from West Virginia, Derrick Evans (R-WV-HD19)
https://www.herald-dispatch.com/ap/west-virginia-delegate-records-himself-storming-us-capitol/article_99436874-294e-56cc-b8c4-0717bac584ef.html
Also I don't really have anything to say response to what you posted. (Not sure if I should apologize for this?)
I mean, frankly, I was actually planning to spend the day taking of various tasks and then watching some anime.
I should trust my instincts more.
Donald Trump cannot ignore his responsibility in stoking the fires for today. For every hundred people that he made feel better by allowing them to think the election had been stolen and he was fighting, there was at least one extremist hearing justification for whatever they planned.
I do not take kindly to this whether it comes from Donald Trump or Patrice Cullors of BLM. If you are making big, sweeping statements, temper yourself. Temper your dialogue somewhat, peppering your speech with balancing language. It disenfranchises lunatics, and I'm more sure of that now than I ever was.
This was not the time for Peak Trump rhetoric, and though I was of the mind to ignore it I should have watched for the signs (despite everything, I have not followed Trump on twitter and I don't really check his account, so filtering him out was easier than it should have been) .
This'll sound weird, but my honest feelings about this election are that even if it were won by fraud, there was absolutely no shifting it once the narrative was in place literally like Nov. 20th (this is how politics is). This may be too big an L for some to swallow (especially if they hold on to the fraud allegations), but I see the problems facing the world not primarily as ones won by the major political events, but by grassroots efforts and pushes within the culture.
What the Republican party needed (and really, really currently needs) is fighting spirit, and the will to do things.
The Democratic party has had that in spades and that's what allowed a major upset to carry a guy who barely campaigned outside of video-conferencing (current events notwithstanding).
Do not become the monster
At points during this I was genuinely convinced that it was better to always fight than to follow your instincts. If people play dirty, join in! After all, it's how they won, right?
Yeah, uh, no?
The game of politics is about appearances more than absolutely anything, and that means there's a reason only certain segments of the political landscape that are allowed to act crazy.
In addition, one of the main criticisms of Republicans as a whole is that they are unwilling to fight at all, and will take losses too easily, especially in the culture.
There are times, even this very week, where my instinct has told me to stop pushing things and I did, and afterwards I felt bad about it.
Most places, like National Review, already took the line of "Hey, maybe drop this now?" ages ago. That's a super Republican move right there, and I was of that mind too, until I let myself be convinced otherwise entirely based on feelings I didn't even trust.
Nicholas Fuentes and his ilk still exist
These people have no power or cultural influence on their own, but they will latch themselves on to whatever is available at the time. So, thanks Lin Wood and Sidney Powell for bringing this guy back to relevance.
The saddest thing of all is that I have to admit that there was no Lin Wood or Sidney Powell without Donald Trump pushing and pushing (especially anything past Dec. 14th). He has done little of value since recovering like a True Chad in October. I guess he signed a few good executive actions?
For all intents and purposes, all Republicans will now be viewed as Nick Fuentes
Man, this is going to be a fun 4-8 years.
It's not visible yet, because Trump is still in the way, but once the media gets tired of him (which, going by how little coverage they gave Sidney Powell and Lin Wood despite their insanity, will be soon), it's danged coming.
See? It's already started happening. These rioters have screwed the messaging so hard you'll have to spend every ten seconds disavowing the Proud Boys instead of standing up for the police.
I understand that the police shot a woman inside the congress building, and that people have already started saying "hey why would you do that if you want our support" but I'm going to go radical and be explicit here; I support the police, and unfortunately it was probably the right thing to do in the moment. Even just given the situation they were in.
It was dangerous and tense as heck and I can't imagine being one of the guys who had to go in and deal with it.
As for this story, I'll await the details (that'll probably only be out in like 4-6 months after everybody has already forgotten), but my instincts say the police probably acted appropriately.
And in case I needed to say it again, I think the Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer and whoever else aren't groups that deserve any support, because they have twisted, radical means of operation and getting their (wild) message across.
LOL
Well, I just wanted to give you guys some background (considering a lot of this is probably unknown to you).
I hope that some of my post has highlighted exactly how different it actually was (and therefore should have been).
I hope this isn't part of some effort to make lists (something that's been doing the rounds) or an effort conflate "protesters" with "rioters" (considering how much those have been condemned).
There's been an obvious tactic where during the day a protest will seem "peaceful" and then as night approaches the rioters will go ballistic, but I do remember seeing posts yesterday from a few people at lunch (ie early morning in America) about how things didn't seem to be going okay.
Well, personally I think that when you get somewhere and see the crowd, or at least read the room, you should leave.
More importantly, as misguided as these delegates were to be there, it was very hard to predict what would happen (considering the Million MAGA March didn't end up like this), especially since "Hey let's do a protest at this thing we don't like even if we don't really have a basis for it" is an impulse everybody has accepted as legitimate for quite a while now.
Oh gosh I would be absolutely horrified to be in that position. Serious, mad props to the police, guards, and staffers who have been in the very difficult situation of having to deal with this situation on the front lines.
Which tweet is this replying to?
Also,
Well, not really? One of the major criticisms a I and a lot of people have is that the GOP is very unwilling to go after the big issues of the day that they say they fight for or should be very aware of. For example, Tom Cotton's NYT Op-Ed (which has become relevant once again, and will surely be reproduced in regards to current events yet NYT staffers will not suffer mental breakdowns) didn't have many other Republicans pitching in to support him.
I mean, Tulsi Gabbard (a Democrat) had to be the one who actually tried introducing decent abortion legislation (I mean, it was shot down and she was leaving anyways) but this led to a lot of soul-searching and the prevailing theory appears to be "The GOP knows harping on about abortion will get them votes and so actually doing anything about it earnestly will mean less votes once it's done."
This is pushing from the progressive fringe, because it really doesn't apply.
Practically every Hollywood celebrity is a Democrat. The ones that aren't are notable and can be easily named (Patricia Heaton, Kirstie Alley, Tim Allen, Jon Voight, and Adam Carolla).
When one Avengers cast member refused to attend a fundraiser for Joe Biden, almost the entire media came after him.
AOC was on the cover of Vanity Fair recently, Stacey Abrams (who lost her last major election) had a giant feature piece in whatever magazine that was last year, and Melania Trump hasn't made a single cover of anything relevant.
Karlie Kloss has faced snide comments from contestants on Project Runway merely because she's married to the brother-in-law of a first daughter.
For every "Obama isn't radical enough" (usually a Vox op-ed) there's a Republican kowtowing and saying "we'll get 'em next time" or "ignore the culture" or the most fun "well, it's just culture, doesn't matter, reality'll get them eventually!".
You posted it as an image earlier.
(Like I was saying earlier, this is basically activists (particularly issue activists) complaining about the party they typically support, regardless of party.)
Okay, my line was about how people frequently say that the Democratic Party isn't doing enough to make progress important issues, so I am very, very confused at this reply.
Also, I don't read Vox, but I actually directly see activists agitating for their pet issues directly and making those complaints about the Democrats. Usually I see this of Dem-leaning activists, because I hang out with them more, but I also run across instances of Repub-leaning activists doing it. They're both typically indicative of people who (1) care strongly about one or more specific issues and (2) are disinclined to accept a lesser concession, for whatever reason. (There isn't a Democratic analogue to the "Republican kowtowing" bit, but I'm not sure I fully get that either, to be honest, particularly the "ignore the culture"/"well it's just culture" lines.)
One shouldn't be "standing up for the police" like it's some sort of grudgematch involving "the police" vs. "the forces opposed to the police". It shouldn't be like that.
If there's anything worth "standing up for", it's good, effective police work, that minimizes crime and keeps order in some sort of civil, agreeable manner. Neither "all cops are bastards" nor "thin blue line" nonsense. And we should also be mindful that cops are people too, neither infallible nor uniformly malicious.
(Also it's ironic that I did spot a "thin blue line" flag among the protesters today, considering what ended up happening.)
Ah, I thought you just meant in general.
Anyways, this probably isn't the time for our usual nitpicking.
I think it's obvious when you look at how, despite no support from the GOP establishment, Donald Trump managed to work himself into the nomination in the first place, whereas Bernie Sanders keeps getting fielded (and with the Squad racking up members, I think he's been fielded for the final time).
That is to say, the push pull between the Democractic establishment and the base works well, whereas the GOP has no such luck and won't if it continues in the current direction.
Well, the tweet is essentially "fighting rhetoric is bad all the time", which is wrong and hypocritical. My position is "fighting rhetoric has it's time, but the GOP thinks it's bad too often of the time, and Donald Trump things fighting rhetoric is meant for everyday use".
Well yeah I see this a lot too (though I'm not sure if you mean in real life, because I don't think you hang out around a political crowd IRL), but Vox was the easy target.
The adages of the (now basically proven nonexistent) "silent majority" and the (super idiotic) "They'll grow out of it once they get out of college and into the real world" are two good examples.
I guess I played carrot before the stick here, but the issue is separate enough for it to work anyways.
When Republicans lose the culture, they lose a lot of political issues. For example, there have been several movies recently that were not even disguised attempts to normalize minor abortions without parental approval that received lots of media coverage. The Republicans said basically nothing.
When the wave of laws that lower the age of having abortions without parental consent appears with wide media and cultural support, they'll be like "what habben????" before saying something to the effect of "Well, they might have won this time, but if you elect us and we might get the age raised from 15 to...uh.... 16!"
The only time in recent history where right-leaning people successfully pushed against the culture was when Concerned Citizens actually did something by themselves by cancelling their Netflix subscriptions after Cuties, and the Republicans grandstanded saying stuff like "we're going to investigate Netflix for the promotion of child exploitation" (and then did nothing).
Similarly, Section 230 continues to exist in it's current form and not be enforced even though Republicans had a Senate majority.
You can't really follow things for as long as I have and not wonder exactly what is up with them.
I know it seems like I'm talking about abortion a lot but it's one of those issues where I think you and I won't personally get derailed, and I need illustrative examples.
I'd disagree with your assessment.
Donald Trump succeeded in winning the nomination because he was largely willing to say and act what the Republican base wants to hear/see. The Republican Party had been campaigning on taking reactionary attitudes (and the positions that went with them, but the attitudes are more important) for decades now, since frankly the "Southern strategy" days back during Nixon's presidential campaigns. They talked up a set of ideas and ideals, incorporating culture war and cultural resentment aspects in large part, and got people to sign onto them and thus provide them electoral support. But resentment only works so far, and the base that had been trained year after year and cycle after cycle to support these ideas finally realized they weren't being realized. They demanded more results; they became drunk on the ideology. Meanwhile, the emphasis on these ideas drove away people who didn't stick to them slavishly, while it distilled and further attracted people who did.
Donald Trump just happened to be the perfect candidate to take advantage of this. To be honest, he wasn't quite the usual idea an ideal Republican candidate, as the usual Republican approach had bit of a more genteel, moneyed, and fiscal-conservatism bent, outside these culture war issues, but Trump stumbled on a "special sauce" when he just largely discarded that and went for a populist and say-it-like-it-is style (McCain tried the latter in 2008, but failed to gain traction with it). Trump's idea, likely spawned from his general knack with charisma rather than any planned strategy, traded some ideological purity for a willingness to entertain and indulge fantasies and a more viscerally satisfying framing to everything. Add in a few drops of cravenness, in the form of being willing to say and do anything (even to the point of backtracking and lying freely), and this resulted in basically matching what that base wanted -- not in his character, but in his intentions. Whatever he did right, it was because he was fighting for the base; whatever he did wrong, it was because someone else stymied him. And since he appealed to intentions, even evangelicals had an excuse to support him for expediency.
On the other hand, the Democratic Party never made a concentrated effort to make the kinds of ideas Bernie Sanders campaigned on front and center in the party. While both Sanders and Trump seem like "outsiders" relative to the party establishment, Sanders arrived at the Democratic Party offering a new set of idea emphases, and Sanders was supported by a set of activists who were also relatively new. For him to succeed, he'd genuinely need to bring on the support of actual party members (not just party establishment, but the party establishment was among said members) who'd been active in the party longer than he had, and that created an easily exploitable gap that a variety of candidates filled.
I feel like there's other stuff I could reply to but I don't feel like braining any more.