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Comments
>taking as an assumed fact that modern pop music has no merit at all,
No one said that.
>assuming that there is a meaningful distinction between "indie" and "mainstream" anymore
There are, but not in the context people use them lately.
> that these discussions tend to completely ignore any kind of music that isn't rock
Rap has been mentioned and hell the presence of Techno, Jazz, Blues, and Classical have been mentioned by Alex.
As far as I'm aware, no-one's saying this.
"Indie" is short for "independent", so in the traditional use of the term, there's certainly a gulf for a variety of reasons. Indie has suffered the same denigration as punk, that is, becoming a popular enough thing for the term to change in colloquial use from a cultural and economic word into one that describes musical traits.
Original wave thrash metal was "indie"; punk was "indie"; rap was "indie". The use of indie as a shorthand for taste is based on the same essential foundation as using "erudite" -- social distinction.
That's fundamentally it though, isn't it? The story of the music industry is largely based around how blues became rock, and how the world-shaking 60s and 70s were influenced by it. Rock is arguably the most culturally influential form of popular music out there (perhaps apart from classical), to the extent that over forty years after 1970, it remains a measuring stick for other forms of music.
The corporately-imposed death of rock music is therefore a pretty big deal. If you look at when Guitar Hero and Rock Band were in their heyday, the sales of classic rock and heavy metal records saw a noticable boost -- there was now an avenue from which new audiences could be exposed to that music. And that is largely the big issue here. Great music dies because of a push to sell as widely as possible with as little effort as possible. A lot of people only know stereotypes surrounding heavy metal rather than the music itself, for instance, despite that the genre can be melodic and accessible, an impenetrable wall of sound or anything in between. It can be folk music or classical, or it be hard rock or blues. But there are cultural images and misconceptions surrounding a bunch of stuff that prevents talented musicians from being heard.
To take it from another perspective, consider rap and how the music industry forced it into a narrow corner of violent themes. After achieving initial success with the formula, the massive power of the music industry continued to replicate its success until there was a presumption that rap music was inherently about crime and violence. The music industry sets its own terms and then feeds back into itself, influencing the general consumer public during the entire process. Doesn't this seem pretty horrible? That such an influential form of art is commodified to such an extent that the music industry can exert social power that influence's peoples thoughts on race, drugs, sex, violence, success and a host of other topics?
Like I said, it mirrors the game industry, where the replication of success has created a feedback loop terrified of change. And much like the music industry has been influential in shaping people's perceptions of certain topics via the power of currency, the game industry is giving rise to a generation that glorifies warfare and the stereotypical soldier.
The essential issue is thus:
What this really comes down to, then, is that rock just happened to be the popular music genre before the music industry was in a stage of feedback loop and was seeking organic talent to make its money. It had a natural influence that was very much a part of the context of its time. From the 80s onward, however, the music industry has exerted more and more control over widely-distributed art for the sake of profit. Today, a small amount of record labels hold a monopoly over widely-distributed music. And that's bad, because music is art is culture is influence, and such influence is coming from fiscal qualities moreso than artistic ones.
If you'd like another example of this happening, the Catholic Church intentionally did something similar to ensure that religious music was the most socially influential form of music around. Pretty awful, although they perhaps had the excuse that they were genuinely trying to lead people down a path of righteousness, however misguided that was. Unlike religion, however, business and industry are cold and uncaring. And I firmly believe that business has stepped too often and too hard on the toes of art. The internet has been a massive cultural boon of late, with much easier access to information, tools and, well, art. But it's up to the internet userbase to keep it free so we can have this avenue of free expression that doesn't require fiscal success for wide distribution.
Trust me, I'm happy for people to listen to what they want to listen to. But first, people have to be in a position to be exposed to a wide variety of styles and genres. Most people will not go far out of their way to seek out music when a small cut of the wider art is made easily available to them and socially enforced by its success.
>top X content aggregator pig disgusting
Spare yourself the pain of ever surfing to this type of site.
>pop music becoming samey
Meh, what he said^, but also blame it on radio and clubs having music as aural wallpaper. Plus there's plenty of innovation every few years, but then the trend gets spammed to death. There's something cumulative in it: once something gets such overexposure, it serves as a constant reminder of said period of overexposure.
not even necessarily different styles of rap, just the stereotypical tough-life-gangsta variety
This hasn't been popular or widespread since the middle of the last decade.
Since the mid nineties, the music industry has been more and more obviously dominated by fabricated personalities, with the real musicians relegated to studio recording roles
Monkees, Sex Pistols, etc.
I almost can't blame the indie scene for its hilarious pretension
Also hasn't been true since the middle of the last decade.
The story of the music industry is largely based around how blues became rock, and how the world-shaking 60s and 70s were influenced by it. Rock is arguably the most culturally influential form of popular music out there (perhaps apart from classical), to the extent that over forty years after 1970, it remains a measuring stick for other forms of music.
I would argue that blues, jazz and hip-hop were more important that rock.
To take it from another perspective, consider rap and how the music industry forced it into a narrow corner of violent themes.
It was the success of NWA and the revitalization of the West Coast scene that popularized gangster rap, not the music industry. They capitalized on it to be sure, but gangster rap hasn't been popular or relevant for a long time now.
also blame it on radio and clubs having music as aural wallpaper.
What does this even mean? Music has been used as "aural wallpaper" since records and radio first existed. It's not like every single time someone went to put a vinyl into the record player, they sat down and stared at the record until it ended, then went back to their day.
I know for sure that gangster-themed rap was still widely popular since 2008, and it must have lasted at least a couple of years longer as a fiscal powerhouse in the music industry.
And both were awful, and only the latter are really fondly remembered. Also, the Sex Pistols weren't a result of music industry fabrication, but fashion industry fabrication.
Pitchfork still exists.
In any case, indie has pretty much morphed into hipster, which works on the same tenets.
Let me put it this way:
I live in Melbourne, Australia. This almost as far South East as Australia goes, on the opposite side of the world to the USA. I have heard my fair share of American music over the years -- in fact, very little of the music I listen to is actually Australian. It's foreign import, sold here because it saw success in other areas half a world away.
The West Coast of the USA is only the West Coast of the USA, yet imitations of that scene can be heard in Europe, Australia, Japan, China and pretty much anywhere else you'd care to name. The music industry capitalised on the success of legitimate musicians, sure, but it also took the music to places where the genre didn't exist. There's nothing inherently bad about that, but then again, most modern popular styles of music originate from the USA, right?
Can you see the issue here? There's nothing wrong with hip-hop or rap, but it's a great example of a US cultural export that was imitated at home and abroad because of its financial success at the hands of the moneybags. And however organic hip-hop and rap started out, they became a part of the feedback loop at the expense of greater musical diversity.
To be fair, if the music industry hadn't done that, plenty of non-US citizens would've missed out on a kind of music that they might find highly enriching, but there's a particular limit to how hard something can be pushed. The Australian Big Day Out music festival, for instance, is still largely dominated by hip-hop, although it also contains a large amount indie rock and various electronic genres.
tl;dr a bloo bloo the music industry shafts everywhere that isn't the USA but we still have to put up with their bullshit the fuckers
I feel compelled to write something inane like "metal will never die \m/". Perhaps I should put it in more metal words, though. Like... mhm... oh, perhaps something along the lines of "isn't dead what can eternally lie", but that sounds like it can suffer from snarking. Still, trve kvlt \m/.
BTW it seems like variations on folk music are gaining popularity. You know, judging by all those folk something crossbreed genres, like folk metal.
Nothing can beat stoner doom-folk.
is perhaps the worst genre of metal. Stoner metal is a close second. /opinions
^ I don't know how that's stoner or doom, personally. Not bad, though.
You can call it acid jazz without the jazz, if you want to.
Seriously though, those are joke definitions usually applied to that particular artist. He's a former rocker turned turbo folk singer who sings about hangovers, drug trips, graveyards, how much his life sucks and how he's gonna die, and is usually not taken very seriously.
Still, considering what horrors the turbo folk scene is full of, he isn't bad.
Ooooh, okay.
@Milos:
This is more like Jewish folk, but as it's still more local than some Celtic invention, I think my point stands - folk spinoffs are growing in popularity.
That's insanely catchy.
Gangsta Rap hasn't really been all that popular in awhile. It's still popular with some sects (where it's mostly evolved into hardcore rap, which is similar but different.) but when you say "Gangster Rap" you're most likely thinking of say, Li'l Wayne. Who is a Glam Rapper.
Even more recently, that's been supplanted by swag rap (OddFuture, Soulja Boy Tell'Em, Li'l B, Riff-Raff, Kreayshawn, WAKA FLOCKA FLAAAAAAAAAAAME, Raider Klan and Speak! just off the top of my head) and stoner rap (Whiz Khalifa, Mac Miller, A$AP Rocky and his whole crew, etc.).
edit: oh, there have also been quite a few throwbacks to Boom-Bap lately that have gained some popularity (Asher Roth since he started rapping again, Hopsin and the rest of his label, Gavlyn, etc.)
I sort of doubt this matters to you any more than the distinction between Death Metal and Thrashcore does to me, but I'm just letting you know.
Also, I didn't say anyone said that modern pop music has no value, but it's kind of hard to not see that implication here. God forbid you like Train or something.
As for the rest of that, no comment.
Well Train's lyrics are kinda insane. And not in the good way, but the "what the hell were you thinking when you wrote this?" kinda way.
-this post brought to you by a guy who works at a store where the pop station is played in the lobby-
>Folk Metal is perhaps the worst genre of metal.
I will break you, mortal.