I don't understand satire and I doubt I ever will

DonZabu

I look at satire and I go, "Isn't this basically an advanced form of strawman? How am I supposed to laugh at this if I don't already hate what they're satirizing?"

This has not done me many favors in life.

Super Lazuli

Strawman: "This is what you're saying. So everyone should hate you for it."

Satire: "This is the logical extreme of what you're saying. So everyone should laugh at you for it."

bit of a diff, imo. 

MillerCross

didn't we have this thread already

All Nines

Yes.

Nova

And this thread isn't even satirizing the last one.

DonZabu

^^^ Yeah, I still don't get it.

This makes me autistic, doesn't it?

MillerCross

Oi. Being autistic doesn't mean not understanding satire. 

Alkthash

Satire is basically extended sarcasm to undermine something. If you don't get that simple idea well... How do you get dressed without strangling yourself in the process?

MillerCross

V-neck t-shirts

Bastion

You can also make something satire by subtitling it "A Modest Proposal".

ClockworkUniverse

To use A Modest Proposal as an example, it's not claiming that anyone is advocating eating babies. The point is that if you're not okay with that, why would you be okay with letting people starve to death?

In other words, the point of a well-executed satire is to make the audience go "wow, that's horrible...and now that I think about it, so is that other thing that this is an exaggerated version of."

DonZabu

^ Then I'm just like "Why don't they just say 'This is horrible', then?".

ClockworkUniverse

Because that isn't always as effective.

Firebert

Or funny.

MillerCross

Main reason is providing humor and a way of entertainment. Secondary reasons are simply matters about communication and overture in relation to subtlety

ninjaclown

Subtlety is an art. If you just straight up say it, it loses all meaning. That's why jokes aren't funny as soon as you explain them.

ClockworkUniverse

Think of it as the difference between telling someone they're wrong and nudging them onto the path of logic that makes them realize they're wrong. The former method rarely if ever works.

Kraken

It's about bypassing the mind and going straight to the funny-bone, past rationality and into emotion itself.

MillerCross

I don't think you're quite understanding, though. Satire is all about appealing to rationality and a better understanding of the world as opposed to an emotional one, it's just that it uses something that appeals to all of us (comedy) to convey something that might or might not appeal to us (The director's ideology) in order to make it more palatable.

Kraken

Perhaps.

MrW

Go look at something like The Colbert Report, which takes aim at Fox News pundits by presenting the host's ridiculous "views" for comedic effect. Or The Daily Show, which holds certain current events and standard news practices up for ridicule.

DonZabu

>Think of it as the difference between telling someone they're wrong and nudging them onto the path of logic that makes them realize they're wrong. The former method rarely if ever works.

I think I'd rather tell them directly and afford them some dignity rather than manipulating them.

Kraken

Manipulation is the way of the world, the way of man itself.



Every movie, every song in the world is trying to make you feel something. Every teacher and demagogue is trying to make you learn something. And every preacher and critic are trying to make you believe something.



It's nothing new.

Alkthash

See Zabu, it doesn't work like that. Directly telling people that they are wrong and should feel bad insults them because it cuts off any of their own thoughts and reasoning. Nudging them to arrive in the direction of certain conclusions lets them feel smarter because they got to piece together bits of information on their own and reason out a position without a guy just telling them what is what. 

DonZabu

I think I took this in strange directions. Let me try and backtrack a bit:



Juan said that the idea with the humor is to make a difficult idea more palatable to whoever needs to hear it. Now I don't know how it is with other people, but the impression I get from most satire is that the only people who will find it funny are the people who already hate the subject of the satire, and the subject of the satire will either not get the joke or resist the joke (and its message) because it's being made at their expense.



So the impression I get is not one of subtle activism, but rather one of a self-indulgent roast club, which I guess would be alright if it didn't pretend to be anything else.

Ironweaver

I most respectfully disagree. I've found that satire was extremely efficient in debunking some things that I used to believe in or support.

ninjaclown

Seriously, what Milos said. Satire has been used to derail a lot of things I used to believe in by exposing the fundamental flaw in their logic. The key word is fundamental, which means basics of whatever you believe in.

Firebert

Plus it's more entertaining than "you suck, this is a list of facts why".

Icalasari

^ Why did my mind jump to Cracked as soon as I read your post?

CountryPumpkin

Strawman is pretending that something is somebody's position when it's not.

Satire is pretending that you take their position seriously.

DonZabu

I need therapy.