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People calling the upcoming Tomb Raider misogynist.
People have been saying this since the game was announced because the footage showed Lara visibly frightened and unsure of herself. They say she's been turned into a coward, when she was a hardened badass in all her other portrayals. But they seem to be missing the point that the new game is set before all of Lara's adventures, and that its about her development into the character we see in all the other installments to the series.
There's a scene in the game where a man attempts to rape Lara, which some people have been getting uppity about because it apparently perpetuates rape culture. You'd think they'd find it empowering that she manages to fend off her attacker and kill him with her hands tied. Honestly, if that's sexist, then so is every Lifetime movie.
/rant
Comments
So, you don't see the issue at all with the idea of rape as a way of immediately gaining sympathy? At all?
Every Lifetime movie ever is sexist.
Rape culture is everywhere, Tomb Raider gets singled out because it's prominent. Rape as a cheap source of tension/drama is hardly unique.
Frightened and unsure/powerful and sexy aren't inherently sexist, but they can be written in uninspired sexist ways. Sorta reminds me of people giving Other M flak for making Samus frightened despite it actually being an accurate portrayal of PTSD. Within the context of the derp-wait-for-permission-from-Adam-before-using-basic-equipment, it was depowering moe-vulnerable tripe.
I didn't see it as a way of gaining sympathy. I saw it as a way of showing what kind of people she's fighting against in the game. Awful people who are more than willing to rape and murder if they get the opportunity.
Maybe I'm wrong, but that's not the impression I got.
"Sorta reminds me of people giving Other M flak for making Samus frightened despite it actually being an accurate portrayal of PTSD."
I think the portrayal of Samus actually is misogynist, but not because of the PTSD. It's her relationship with Adam that I find a bit unsettling.
Well, that's not what the developers had to say about the game. According to them, it's to make her seem vulnerable so you'll want to protect her.
The thing about Other M is that Samus had faced Ridley plent times before hand. It's stupid to even consider that she's suddenly getting PTSD from seeing him after having faced him (And coming out on top) before.
And even then, the real issue is not that Samus is traumatized, but simply that it's against character for her to let her fears stop her
It isn't unique, but Tomb Raider is hardly "singled out". The issue is being discussed because it's prominent, as you say, but nobody pretends that what Tomb Raider's developers are doing is something unique. It's simply a fact that you can only speak of the biggest examples in hope that they are detracted in order to at least diminish the impace
As INUH points out, that wasn't the intention according to the people behind the work. But that's not what really matters. What matters is that rape simply doesn't bring anything to the story here. These people are going to kill her (Usually. Unless all of a sudden, all of Lara's enemies are going to rape her. In which case, ew) does the story need a rape attempt to make it seem any more dangerous? I think not.
>It's simply a fact that you can only speak of the biggest examples
No. Singling out was an ill-fitting word choice, but narrowing the debate down to a prominent title is just as bad as making the debate so broad as to encompass the entirety of videogames. The former leads to example-wank, the latter to meaningless trend summaries. A flagship title is a hook for a broader debate. What does it do? How does it compare to previous incarnations of the series? How do the designers motivate their decisions? How do the fanboys react? Are there games in the genre that do handle this situation in a tasteful way? But meh, I'm coming from an academic instead of an activist angle.
I mean, having Lara be scared and less physically capable or whatever could be positive, in that we see her grow into the role and keep going to do what needs to be done despite being afraid, or it could be all just to make you want to hug her and protect her which is bad. The execution matters here, I think.
And one dev said that, but he could have just been talking in general and not meant to make it seem like the rape scene specifically was for that purpose, or he could be just talking out of his ass and not reflecting what the rest of the team intended. Misleading or wrong stuff has been said at PR events before. Or he could have been spot on. We don't really know until we can see everything in context.
Yeah, I'm inclined to agree that it'll depend on the actual game. I'm just...not optimistic.
As much as I hate to give Kotaku any attention, they had an interview with the game's developer that illustrates why it's sexist.
In the past, Lara Croft didn't need protecting. She was a fearless daredevil, a crack shot in short shorts with enough attitude to scare off a pack of bloodthirsty gorillas.
But in the upcoming Tomb Raider reboot, things will be different. She hasn't become that woman yet. And executive producer Ron Rosenberg says you'll want to keep her safe.
"When people play Lara, they don't really project themselves into the character," Rosenberg told me at E3 last week when I asked if it was difficult to develop for a female protagonist.
"They're more like 'I want to protect her.' There's this sort of dynamic of 'I'm going to this adventure with her and trying to protect her.'"
So is she still the hero? I asked Rosenberg if we should expect to look at Lara a little bit differently than we have in the past.
"She's definitely the hero but— you're kind of like her helper," he said. "When you see her have to face these challenges, you start to root for her in a way that you might not root for a male character."
The new Lara Croft isn't just less battle-hardened; she's less voluptuous. Gone are her ridiculous proportions and skimpy clothing. This Lara feels more human, more real. That's intentional, Rosenberg says.
"The ability to see her as a human is even more enticing to me than the more sexualized version of yesteryear," he said. "She literally goes from zero to hero... we're sort of building her up and just when she gets confident, we break her down again."
In the new Tomb Raider, Lara Croft will suffer. Her best friend will be kidnapped. She'll get taken prisoner by island scavengers. And then, Rosenberg says, those scavengers will try to rape her.
"She is literally turned into a cornered animal," Rosenberg said. "It's a huge step in her evolution: she's forced to either fight back or die."
It's some dark material, the type of content you might not expect from an action-adventure game like Tomb Raider. But Rosenberg isn't worried about alarming people too much. He says players will see right away that this is a darker, "more mature" version of Lara's story. He compared it to the origin story of a comic book like Spider-Man or Batman, saying he thinks it "has that feel to it."
"We're not trying to be over the top, shock people for shock's sake," he said. "We're trying to tell a great origin story."
(That Kotaku itself used a disgustingly sexist title for their interview is besides the point; the point is that the game's main character was developed specifically in mind not only for her to be sexually assaulted in order to make her "stronger," but to make the player seem like her guardian instead of, y'know, Laura herself.)
So besides being misogynist the game also appeals to furries? 0/10 would not buy
The sad thing about this is that the concept of a pre-ass-kicking Lara isn't sexist in and of itself -- it's just that it's being handled so damn poorly.
Yes, exactly.
At least they get rid of the airbags and summerwear in the middle of artic caverns that peeps have been giving the franchise flak for for years.
Yeah, they do seem to have made an effort to avoid being sexist, but actually wound up being a different kind of sexist.
yeah this this this
Not to mention that one of the biggest concerns for me is, well, what if a player fails such a sequence? would there be a full blown rape scene? And if so, why? I mean, just fading out to black seems dishonest with what they're attempting to do.
That is not to say there should be a full rape scene but simply that when you include such a thing as rape in your story, you have some compromises to face head on
^
I hate myself now
Honestly, I'd say the "why" applies to the rape as a whole. Yeah, I know it's to get sympathy for her and whatever, but I'm pretty sure rape isn't the only way to do that.
Yeah, part of what I'm getting at is that Tomb Raider doesn't need a rape scene and that it doesn't benefit the whole game as a whole. I'm just saying that it's very unlikely the game will execute it well and presenting reasons as to why
Which, really, was what people had against Emo Samus. People were really excited about the opportunity to get into her head and see a bit of character-driven writing, but they went about actually doing it in the worst possible way.
This.
Though, would you say it's more the fault of the producers or the fault of the fans?
lololololololol unholy sanctuary
^^ Producers. I mean there was that one "man we need a breast cancer subplot" weirdo but I'd prefer to hope he was a distinct minority and that producers would have the sense not to listen to some of the more overtly creepy people.
Y'know, I used to think that the game industry was relatively progressive on the issue of sexism (i.e. is less sexist than society on the whole), but after Other M, after that one reality show of game designers wherein one pair of designers came up with an idea of a dominatrix villain who was out to kill all men because she'd hit menopause or something, and after this, I'm rethinking my opinion.
We're going through another general phase of "LOOK HOW EDGY WE ARE". As long as we're not supporting it, this too will pass.
http://www.gamecriticsawards.com/nominees.html
It got a best of show nomination. I mean, I get that that mostly means "most famous hardcore IP/developer," but really?
Despite its hamfisted approach, I think that nomination is somewhat justified. For one thing, it's not a FPS like the majority of the AAA titles shown, so it's going to cut through the crowd more effectively to begin with. For another, there are some legitimately interesting concepts at work here. Obviously it could have been done much, much better, but in context of this year's E3? I can absolutely see how it got nominated.
Tomb Raider gets three nominations, but WATCH_DOGS gets none?
One fun thought:
At first, I was like, wasn't Tomb Raider misogynist from the get-go? Then I realized that what I was thinking of was sexism, not misogyny. Tomb Raider's been pretty sexist, though not necessarily in a demeaning way. What i mean is that it has made a big point of Lara Croft's gender, and in that way it is sexist. And I realized I shouldn't be confusing the two terms.
...that said, what definition of sexism do people usually use?