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RPG "normal battle" music that's different from the dungeon music
It frequently breaks immersion.
Watch the beginning of this video. See how nicely that first battle went? Do you feel the jarring transition into the second battle?
At least Chrono Trigger is nice enough to pause the dungeon music and not restart it. There are a lot of games that don't do that--Final Fantasy IV, Final Fantasy VI, Final Fantasy VII, ...heck, I think most games don't do that, since such a fade-out-to-pause-then-fade-back-in feature needs to be separately programmed.
Anyone know of romhacks that simply get rid of battle music?
I know, I know, all y'all classic JRPG fans might feel that battle music is a classic part of the JRPG experience, but while I'm a JRPG fan, I've never really liked how bombastic or dramatic some of these battle themes are--especially when they're (1) repetitive due to the frequency of random battles (which may often also be rather short), (2) overdramatizing a very mundane button-mashing or clicking-through to beat up some minor mooks, and (3) contrasting with the mood of the dungeon itself.
There's one such hack that I know of. It's i90east's Final Fantasy VI Expert Version hack (for the SNES version), which removes the battle music unless you're fighting three or more enemies. Dunno any others though.
Related thread here, at the Caves of Narshe forums: http://www.cavesofnarshe.com/forums/ipb/index.php?act=ST&f=11&t=15963
Comments
Mind if I ask why?
Don't worry, I won't bite.
That and I don't believe immersion is my top priority in games.
In agreement with Lai.
Honestly, in terms of immersion, turn-based RPGs don't have especially much to begin with.
I don't mind the current state of affairs, mostly because battles need some degree of aural recognition. What I think is a more significant issue is the excess of random battles in the first place. If each encounter held more relevance, I think it'd be a lot easier to deal with because it would feel more like a change in the state of affairs. Not sure how it would be done, but I think it would require a bigger shift towards tactics and easing off on the ridiculous JRPG power scaling.
I definitely agree with this. I feel like in too many videogames, I find myself going "wait, why am I fighting these guys?"
I don't understand how you can say that you like your music to fit the mood of an scene and yet complain that battle scenes use different music from normal dungeon exploration, Glenn
With that said, my issue with JRPGs is always going to be the fact that random battles are a thing and personally I feel they should be avoided.
One thing JRPGs could stand to do is to give experience rewards for completed objectives. For one thing, this could ensure that players are at a suitable level for the next set of encounters, or at least have a fighting chance. Secondly, if each encounter was longer, more relevant and none of them were "easy", it would go a long way towards providing more interest in each battle. That said, it would require a shift towards using Tales Of or FFT style battle systems, since the basic menu system is awful for long battles (with the exception of Golden Sun <3).
I'm generally more of a real-time combat fan, but turn-based (especially more versatile turn-based) systems offer interesting possibilities in their own right. Valkyria Chronicles is a great example of this, mixing design elements from tile-based, turn-based strategy titles with real-time combat.
Essentially, it works on turns. You take a turn with your characters and then the enemy takes theirs. Each of your characters has a movement bar. When it's emptied, they're locked in place until the next turn. This replaces the usual tile-based movement of other free-moving, turn-based strategy JRPGs. Once a character has moved, they can take an action, which is usually to shoot at an enemy. You aim yourself, over-the-shoulder shooter style. Furthermore, every unit is on "overwatch" when they're not taking a turn; they'll automatically fire at enemy units that move into their line of sight. This applies to both teams, so placing your units strategically is very important.
It's an interesting, fun blend of tile-based tactical concepts and real-time, skill-based combat. If you have a PS3 and faggy anime games are your thing, I definitely recommend it. Don't listen to what people say about the characters or story, because they're pretty average, but the gameplay itself is very intriguing.
(Plus, it also does the "make each battle relevant" thing really well.)
While I'm waxing poetic about Valkyria Chronicles, I have to mention its theme music.
This is an alternative solution.
Do I really need to hear, over and over again, the intense battle theme every time I encounter a couple slimes or goblins or ghosts? That's the issue. If there are lots and lots of mooks, then the dungeon should itself have an action track. If the dungeon track is a slower, more mysterious track, then it's really annoying to run into mooks every few steps and get bright action battle music when the dungeon's ambience (music and all) is suggesting that I should be savoring the mystique and the feeling of the unknown.
^^ That might also work.
Keep in mind, though, having a battle theme that's different from the dungeon theme means that you have to stop/pause the dungeon theme and restart or unpause it when the battle's over.
If your dungeon theme restarts after every battle, this means that the first twenty or so seconds of your dungeon theme had better be damn good because players are going to hear that, and only that, over and over again. If you have a lot of random battles, make that the first twenty or so seconds.
And there are also those dungeons that have a pretty nice combative feel to their music already. You don't need to put battle music into that, I think.
Alternatively, have a large amount of "microtracks" that play in sequence, but are interrupted by different sequence-breaking music to better transition into the battle music.
What do you mean? Do you mean something like this:
*enter dungeon* loop A, loop A, loo*enter battle*p A, loop B, loop B, lo*finish battle*op B, loop A, loop A, etc.?
I personally don't mind this at all, but I do like it when the normal battle music is overridden by the dungeon music, like in Chrono Trigger's Ocean Palace.
^^ No, more like tracks ranging from, say, A-F with separate aural transition tracks matched to them. Usually, A-F will play in sequence to give the normal, complete dungeon track. If interrupted at track D, transition D plays to transition into the battle theme.
^^ Ocean Palace did it REALLY well. The only place the normal battle theme played was on the elevator, which was basically a chain of battles. At all other times, the dungeon theme played continuously through battles. It probably helped that this was a unique dungeon with a very strong emotional atmosphere at a climactic moment in the game.
^ Oh, I see, basically a more advanced version of the idea I was thinking of. That could also work. Does require more work on the composer's part, though. Then again, simply making the music fade and pause is more work too, albeit on the developer's part.
re:Valkria Chronicles...
Tile-based movement is far better for SRPGs than free movement. It's possible that Valkria Chronicles is better about it than other games due to its focus on ranged weapons as opposed to melee weapons, but in my (admittedly limited) experience, when movement isn't restricted to tiles, it just results in turns taking a lot longer since there's a lot of fiddling around with trying to place your characters in exactly the right spot to optimize... whatever, which really isn't very fun or tactical.
re:Music...
On one hand, I want to disagree with the OP of this thread because battles necessarily demand a different sort of feeling than just exploring a dungeon.
On the other hand, Persona 4 made me absolutely sick of reaching out to the truth, so maybe not having dedicated battle music would be a good thing.
I've never had the location optimisation issue with Valkyria Chronicles, primarily because the maps provide their own points of focus. Placing your characters behind cover is very important, for instance, so each side's troops will naturally choose to engage from a position of safety.
Keep in mind Tyrano Lair and some of the "creepier" bits of Chrono Trigger carried that enhanced effect because ordinarily you did have an upbeat battle theme, and suddenly having a glaring lack of one is kind of a subconscious knock in the head. It's the same as some of the more tense moments in Final Fantasy games -- the Demon Wall in 4 and the burning castle in 5 comes to mind.
As for pausing/resuming the out-of-battle music, a good deal of the Dragon Quest games take that route. I know for a fact 6 does because I'm playing it.
Persona 4.
Those long days passing by from that door--NOW I FACE OUT I HOLD OUT...Can't get my mind, out of those memories--NOW I FACE OUT, I HOLD OUT...