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I think my views on feminism and gender might be a bit...

edited 2012-05-14 03:21:30 in Philosophy
...backwards.

Comments

  • edited 2012-05-14 03:00:08
    They're somethin' else.

    There's so many ways people define feminism. It's like all the music genres ending in -core.

    Or all the branches and sub-branches and friggin championship tournament ultimate editions of Christianity and whatever.

  • ...I can't figure out what the pun is, which means either it's not a pun or I'm missing something obvious.


    Either way I feel stupid.

  • Back in Black

    How so, DonZabu? 

  • Needs more elaboration.

  • Has friends besides tanks now

    ^^^ I'm pretty sure he just means that he's concerned about his views on feminism and gender.

  • edited 2012-05-14 11:45:19
    Diet NEET

    This is taking too long, so I'll stretch my privilege muscle and dump some of my own perhaps naïve views:


    Treating dudettes as individuals also means that if your brodettes are okay with hipstironic sexism, rape jokes, boozing and bedding, testing the waters first by forming a friendship and other behaviour that concern blogs frown upon, you don't write it off as ignorance, internalized categorization or self-hatred. It's pretentious and presumptious to believe they haven't thought about those things.


    Being called out on sexist views/behaviour is not the end of the world, so get the hell over yourself. Suprise,  you have flaws. You have nothing to learn from someone who drops the stock phrase "you're a terrible person and you disgust me", it is not their plight to educate you, you don't have to counter with a summary of your daily behaviour that nets you feminist cookies, you don't have to martyr yourself by serving as a target for their ranting, you don't have to extrapolate their behaviour to feminists in general. Just surf away, perhaps do some reading up on the topic or else wait for a person who does have the patience to debate the topic with you.


    Slice apart at your discretion.

  • Back in Black

    Treating dudettes as individuals also means that if your brodettes are okay with hipstironic sexism, rape jokes, boozing and bedding, testing the waters first by forming a friendship and other behaviour that concern blogs frown upon, you don't write it off as ignorance, internalized categorization or self-hatred. It's pretentious and presumptious to believe they haven't thought about those things.



    I'm not sure I understand the complaint here. 

  • It's not a complaint, more a viewpoint that often clashes with the collective opinion of feminist concern blogs. 'I have friends who don't mind x' and 'but it's a prop joke, not an ideological sentiment' are categorized as silencing tactics, and the behaviours mentioned are classified as bad regardless of context, even if the people involved in the behaviour on both sides don't really see the harm in it. There's no room for nuance in it between the dudette who tosses back a few drinks to boost the bravado and the one who's so sloshed she'll go for anything that moves, or the chick who makes an ironic comment about 'damn my gender' when she's feeling mopey and the one who actually believes it is an excuse to have breakdowns round the clock. It limits the agency of the girls in question by deciding things for them.

  • Back in Black

    Ah, alright.  Yeah, I see what you mean.  It always dismays me when one of my feminist friends says something to the effect of "women who don't join the workforce and become successful money-wise on their own merits are just reinforcing the patriarchal power structure," because it seems just like the "get back in the kitchen" mentality but from the opposite end.  I'd like to think that feminism isn't supposed to be a prescriptive movement, and that it isn't my or any other feminist's job to tell a woman what to do.  Rather, it's our job to make sure she can do what she wants to do, whether it's work out in the world or stay home and raise her keeps/keep the house together, so long as it doesn't directly harm others, and make sure that this choice is embraced and celebrated by the whole of society for what it is:  women exercising the agency to chose what they want to do, which they have every right to, and which men exercise every day. 

  • Actually, now I can't think of anything I could say on the subject that wouldn't make me sound like a tool.


    Probably my most reasonable grievance is that I wish feminists would talk less about the media and more about the wage gap. Or maybe I'm just reading the wrong blogs.

  • MORONS! I'VE GOT MORONS ON MY PAYROLL!

    I do think the emphasis on media is disproportionate to how much of the problem it comprises, yes.


    Which isn't to say it isn't one.

  • Back in Black

    I think feminists talk about media a lot because it's easy to discuss.  You don't need a PhD in economics to talk about why superhero comics are generally misogynistic as fuck.  Whereas, the wage gap and other such issues are slightly more technical.  I mean shit, I've taken economics courses and the finer details of the wage gap, or how to address it still elude me.  Which is fine; not everybody can be the technical person who deals with the complex shit.  But if you want to have a discussion about things which are negative to minorities and you aren't a social scientist of some kind, you're rather limited, so media is, for lack of a better term, "low-hanging fruit." 


    Though I think media has a bigger impact on women than you guys give it credit for.  Look at the body-image and beauty standards thing.  That shit is not good, and there's not a lot we can do about it legally either due to free speech, not to mention how many people don't even grasp that it's misogynistic, or are willing to defend it because they're unconsciously misogynistic ("what?  you can't take my fanservice!  what do you mean it's anti-women, it shows that they're beautiful!") so it's also a very difficult problem to properly address. 

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