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Noticing creepy racist/sexist undertones in things I like
I don't know if I can still like them while admitting those flaws, or if I'm somehow complicit in the badness by doing so.
Weirdly enough, when said undertones aren't undertones and are right out in the open(see Lovecraft), I have no problem and can distance myself from those things while enjoying the work.
Comments
inb4 Metroid Other M
That would be relevant if Other M would be a good game if you cut out the sexism, which it wouldn't.
Please let that statement not start a derail.
So, guys, about Other M...
Metroid franchise dead now, y/n?
'Course, there's also the question of whether it actually is racist/sexist or if people are just overreacting.
Just in case anyone was wondering what spawned this thread, it was this http://tigerbeatdown.com/2011/08/26/enter-ye-myne-mystic-world-of-gayng-raype-what-the-r-stands-for-in-george-r-r-martin/#comments
Or Sakamoto not realizing the implications.
Now moving on from this, you guys know of anything else?
The problem is not so much the sexism per se, but the fact that it simply doesn't work according to Samus' characterization. It's kinda like having Ripley go back to her screamy Alien self, really.
>You can try to be nuanced. You can try to be thoughtful. You can lay out your arguments in careful, extravagant, obsessive detail. And at the end of the day, here is what the people in the “fandom” are going to take away: You don’t like my toys? I hate you!
Well, I can see why you might identify with this blogger.
^ I thought Myr was posing it as a question of whether or not the racist/sexist thing harms society, and whether or not you're complicit in that harm by being a fan of it.
Well, yeah, but
>Actually caring about what Myrmidon means to say
either way, to be honest, there are a lot of sexists and racist undertones in everything if you take into account the bigger picture.
Well you should first acknowledge that the work is objectionable, make no attempts to hide this fact, and make no attempts to convince others that your, lesser-objectionable interpretation, is the correct one.
^ Things that try to be "ironically" racist and sexist and whatnot usually end up just as bad, if not worse, than what they're trying to mock. If you forget to add the actual satire into your satire then you've got a problem.
Bayonetta and Audition are not "ironically" racist and/or sexist. Bayonetta (Can't speak about Audition) is about a heavily sexualized woman, but the idea is that she's in control of her sexuality, as opposed to being just a sexual object.
Never mind, history class never taught me that it was used in a derogatory way
Telling people of color that they're 'overreacting' when people make bigoted comments about their race is a favored tactic of racists, you know.
^ Maybe "overreacting", then, isn't the right word so much as "reading too much into things" is. And I think this is different than the situation you describe.
^ I've never personally seen anybody doing that. And I never hear about it from a reliable source.
Much of the problem is that racist and sexist overtones are born out of ignorance and old standards these days. I mean, I don't think anybody is gonna come out and outright say they're racists. It's unseemly, regardless of how actual racism is seen as...well, OK by some if not most people.
Also, I've been thinking about Bayonetta, and I find myself in a similar position to Myrmidon.
That is, if Bayonetta is seriously a breath of fresh air or step in the right direction where depiction of women in games is concerned, that doesn't show how good the game or character is; that just shows how fucked the situation of women in games as a whole is, and now I don't want to play another game again.
@Don
That's not a bad depiction of a woman at all. Like, she's not a stereotypical repressed submissive woman, a tomboy or an objectified woman so that's definitely good.
That's simply a different way of saying "you're overreacting". It's still simply a way to convince people that their reactions to bigotry aimed at them are illegitimate.
"Cheapening"? What do you mean, "cheapening"?
"Blue is sexist because it is a male colour! Don't use blue!"
"...You're overrea-"
"ONLY A SEXIST WOULD SAY THAT!"
Obviously I mean cases more subtle than this, but I'm sure legitimate claims of, "Chill out, you're reading too much into this" have been brushed aside before
I still want to see a real case of this happening.
Well, art is meant to be reactive, at the core of it all. We write, draw and so on in order to portray our opinion, vision or understanding of something. Bayonetta takes the portrayal of women in video games and turns it upside down via taking what's normally expected (A sexualized character in a submissive and unimportant role devoid of personality) and giving it an spin (Taking submission and vacant characterization and making it both domination and, well, characterization)
Admittedly, much of what Bayonetta does right in terms of that only works within the context of videogames, but I'd argue that most innovative approach to core artistic issues only work within the context of their respective mediums.
Not to mention that according to that logic, George Carlin is an unwitty comedian.
Like I said, the issue is not what the author means, but what the author conveys. Saying that something isn't racist because "You're reading too much into things" implies that all racism is intentional, and it is not. Most of the time it is born out of ignorance (The famous, "I'm not racist, but...")
"Blue is sexist because it is a male colour! Don't use blue!"
"...You're overrea-"
"ONLY A SEXIST WOULD SAY THAT!"
I hope you actually realize that the use of blue and pink to distinguish boyish and girlish things is a completely made-up facet that stems from traditional society's want to encourage boys to go into manufacture and get their hands dirty and a woman staying in the household and cleaning/cooking. Consider denim, for example, and its contrasting against the pastel colors of a 1950s kitchen.
So no, it's not that simple.
e: Bayonetta is better than most, but its problem is that it's a story with a strong, assertive female character specifically designed in such a way as to combat cries of sexism. She's fairly good personality-wise, so any attempt to point out the fact that her power is literally taking her clothing of is meant with "pfft, shows what you know, it's supposed to be like that to make fun of nerds who like sexy women." Why the hell did she have to be designed like that? Because the developers wanted to make a game with a strong female character but didn't want to lose any money by not marketing her towards the main demographic of DMC clones: young male nerds. She's sexy in such a way that she can be both objectified by males and pointed out as an example of over-the-top sexism, because well nobody could be so sexist as to miss the obvious satire, right? Remember, when A Modest Proposal first came out, many an Englishman looked at it and said, "Actually, eating Irish children isn't such a bad idea." It's the same argument used by supporters of Sucker Punch, that all the objectification of females found within is meant to be "parodic." That doesn't matter, you're still objectifying females.
I'd like a source on that