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Meme theory

MyrmidonMyrmidon
edited 2012-03-21 13:06:28 in General

http://neuroanthropology.net/2008/06/12/we-hate-memes-pass-it-on/



Pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject.

Comments

  • DYREDYRE

    Well, certainly seems convincing, if nothing else.  Though I don't know much about memetics so I can't say for sure if my thoughts on it would agree with this blog post if I had learned about it before reading this.  Memetics certainly does seem silly though.

  • ClockworkUniverseClockworkUniverse
    OOOooooOoOoOOoo, I'm a ghoOooOooOOOost!

    I haven't read the entire article, but it sounds like the problem here is that meme theory is too focused on imperfect metaphors.

  • lrdgcklrdgck
    "you duck spawn, refined creature, you try to be cynical, yokel, but all that comes out of it is that you're a dunce!!!!! you duck plug!"

    That's why I like you Myrm. You hate a lot of things I hate.

  • SchitzoSchitzo
    They're somethin' else.

    ^seconded

  • DonZabuDonZabu

    Not seconded.


    -grumble-


    -arms folded-

  • BlackHumorBlackHumor

    Debunking his points, in order:



    1. Genes are also an abstraction, but that doesn't mean gene theory is wrong.

    2. Genes also "want" things and are "selfish", yadda yadda, and it still doesn't mean gene theory is wrong.

    3. Again, genes are ALSO not, technically, SELF-replicating, and it STILL doesn't mean gene theory is wrong.

    4. Finally a critique that can't be immediately refuted with a reference to gene theory. However, I don't understand how the idea that memes can be composed of other memes is somehow harmful to meme theory. Christianity is a meme (because it usually spreads from mind to mind as a unit), composed of other memes like "Christ is the messiah". These memes can break off from the memeplex and spread by themselves; when that happens you get things like Jews for Jesus.

    5. Memes do indeed have a rather higher mutation rate then genes, at least when spread orally. This isn't a problem because we humans have discovered things to keep mutation rates fairly low. Like writing. (Even if it was, a game of Telephone is still a memetic interaction; it's just that the meme at the end bears no resemblance to the meme at the beginning.)

    6. Memes are not "parasites" any more than genes are. Some memes are very beneficial to us AND our genes, and we've developed this structure primarily for them. And then, just like with genes, other, less helpful memes piggy-back on it.

    7. Wait, your criticism is that their analogies are bad? Seriously?

    8. Already explained why the mutation rate doesn't matter; neither does the single exposure thing, since that was never part of the idea in the first place.

    9. Evolutionary theory isn't inconsistent with judgement. The gene for Huntington's disease is a bad thing and should be eliminated. The genes which together make up our capacity for language are good things and we hope they stay around.

    10. ...isn't a criticism of the theory at all.


    So, there you go.

  • MyrmidonMyrmidon
    edited 2012-03-23 13:20:44

    http://sitemaker.umich.edu/satran/files/human_nature_01.pdf


    http://hallpike.com/Memetics.%20A%20Darwinian%20pseudo-science.pdf

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