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Comments
No, it's not. Moe is a specific reaction that a person has to a character in some media. It does not describe the media itself, and in fact doesn't even really describe particular characters. What is and is not moe is highly dependent on personal taste. The problem (or one of the problems) with allowing "moe" to describe a type of anime or even a type of character is that it is far too broad a definition, so people just interpret that in whatever way allows them to be dismissive of things they don't like (or, hell, even using it just to describe things they do like is bad too), plus it's just generally inaccurate.
^^ You call it whatever it actually is. A comedy or drama or harem or whatever. Moe is a cultural phenomenon, comparable to the kawaii aesthetic (or grouping of aesthetics or whatever). You don't generally say a show is part of the kawaii genre if it happens to have an aesthetic centered around cuteness (as many shows do). You might say the show is cute, but that's not really the same thing. In the same way, it is appropriate to say a show is created with moe in mind or whatever, but to say that the show is moe in the same way you'd say it's a comedy or action series is incorrect.
Yes, it is true that a large amount of otaku-targeted media focuses on moe to a large extent and uses that as the basis for its merchandising and the like, but really the emphasis on moe is too widespread (in terms of the kind and genre of media it's found in) and the media that emphasizes it are too different for it to really make sense to refer to "moe anime" as a whole. It hardly makes a lot of sense to lump K-ON! and Neon Genesis Evangelion into the same genre, really.
Of the three leading female characters of Haruhi, I felt that only one was designed to illicit a paternal, fraternal or sexually motivated protective response. Haruhi and Yuki were independent and strong in their own ways and their more vulnerable moments were too few and far between for those characters to be classified as moe. Unless there's an interpretation of the show out there that orbits Mikuru'
s breasts, I don't think it can be classified as moe based on a single character.Samus' characterisation in Other M is entirely based around vulnerability, and using that to draw out an emotional response.
My essential issue with moe as an element that can characterise genre is that it's demeaning. It always entails a character being based around an "endearing" flaw. I don't think there are any problems with a flaw being considered endearing in some context-sensitive scenarios, but there's something reductive about the tendency that irks me. And keep in mind that moe characters are always exceptionally pretty at the least, and some are inhumanly attractive. There's an implication that a flaw, when someone is beautiful, is justified by their sexual fitness and thus becomes endearing. It takes more effort on the part of writers to make a regular-looking character's flaws seem cute, and sometimes an entire work has to dedicated to an ugly character's flaws to make their struggles seem noble.
One thing that does escape me is why there aren't any moe shows with a male cast, aimed at women. It's common for women to like men who are in some respects effeminate, or for girlfriends and wives to request their significant other to present themselves in a more effeminate manner. While some women do enjoy moe shows, there's a distinct pattern here. Young, vulnerable women are being marketed towards men, who are usually somewhere in their mid teens to fully-established adulthood. That just sets off all the sirens in my head. Not that I wish to imply anything about those who enjoy moe shows -- I don't begrudge shows some moe characters, because they're certainly have a place -- but the widespread marketing of this and its presence in contemporary internet culture (predominantly young to youngish men) means that it's found to be successful, and therefore marketed. Basically, moe is selling fictionalised female vulnerability. This isn't anything truly horrible, but the implications aren't kind.
Exactly. But the female cast of Evangelion clearly demonstrates moe (even if Anno would argue that this was unintentional, it doesn't really matter since moe, whether it's an audience reaction or a genre, only matters from the audience's perspective anyway) to the exact same extent as in a lot of shows that often are considered moe anime. In fact, just going by volume (though I understand that this isn't really particularly fair), Evangelion actually seems to have more moe-based merchandising than much of what is typically called moe anime, and you yourself say that this is a big part of moe.
If you want an example that nobody would object to... Clannad and Haruhi. Both of them are considered moe by pretty much every single definition of moe as a genre that I have seen (and indeed, both are often referred to as moe anime). Yet they have very little in common aside from what they share due to their relationship to the harem genre.
(will probably end up responding to other parts of your post later)
@Juan: If you meant to say that I'm >implying that moe is about vulnerability, in essence, then yes. Tsundere's a great example, but it's vulnerability to the extent of wearing an emotional mask. Emotionlessness might be a bit different, depending on context. For instance, Yuki doesn't emote, but she feels. It's just that there methods of expression are subtle and alien. Justified trope, I guess.
For some reason, this phrase amuses me.
it would amuse me further if it were:
> watch all of the moe animes
Moe isn't really about vulnerability. That is kind of an aspect of it, but really in practice moe has more to do with finding a character endearing because of their flaws (even if it's just something like them being kind of ditzy) than specifically because they are vulnerable.
^ It was cute, but that kind of behaviour doesn't define her characterisation nor is it glorified. Because of the challenges it poses to Kyon, it's a significant obstacle, irrespective of how endearing it otherwise might be. Haruhi's emotional instability has the tangible power to destroy. As an audience, we can't sit back and let a cute flaw or vulnerability be that, but we deal with it as an actual flaw through Kyon's perspective.
but really in practice moe has more to do with finding a character
endearing because of their flaws (even if it's just something like them
being kind of ditzy) than specifically because they are vulnerable.
I thought it was about vulnerability, specifically of the kind JC just described.
Moe is an audience reaction, not something that has to be put in place on purpose. Otherwise, Rei freaking Ayanami wouldn't be moe, and that would just be bizarre.
Not really. Vulnerability can cause moe, but moe can also be caused by other traits. What is important is that the character appears endearing to the audience, and that the audience feels like they want to help them or take care of them or... something like that. Basically, the character has to be flawed in a way that the audience thinks is cute.
Yeah, this is a significant issue, but I don't think that particular one is on my end. That Other M ended up with moe is more a reflection on the writing's perspective on a having a female protagonist, but that discussion ends up broadening the topic too much, so I'm happy to leave it at that.
Also, another example of male moe, come to think of it, is Kaiji.
I'm not sure about that. I don't think a character having vulnerabilities that allow one to feel for them is enough to characterise them as moe, otherwise any good character would be moe. One could argue, for instance, that Misato is more. We certainly get an insight into her vulnerabilities and flaws, but they're not what her character is about. Rather, her characterisation ends up revolving around her strength in facing the challenges she does. She's got responsibilities as a mother/older sister (through Shinji), a lover (through Kaiji) and a government official (through NERV), and we see them taking their toll. All the same, she becomes the closest thing NGE has to a hero in the modern sense of the term.
Similarly, Kaiji isn't based on his flaws and vulnerabilities. He has them, but they're not anywhere close to the focus of his character. Like Misato, he's heroic. He willingly makes sacrifices for what he considers a greater good.