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Helping others is socialism!

2456

Comments

  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    here'se the thing with liberty it is an antithesis to force. where force begins liberty ends. you are advocatign what would be  government support of brutal force.
  • glennmagusharveyglennmagusharvey
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    But what is force?

    Does force require intent to exist, or can force exist without intent?
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    force can not exist without intent as force needs motive to harm, to oppress, to take, These are the things that create force and then procede to destory Liberty.
  • glennmagusharveyglennmagusharvey
    Creature - Florida Dragon Turtle Human
    But if force cannot exist without intent, does that mean that I have the right to fart at the dinner table as long as I am not intending to stink up someone else's meal?
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    yes you do people can't enforce politeness and vlaues any mo re then they can enforce "wholesome" entertainment.
  • ForzareForzare
    Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
    How about murder?  How can you stop a murderer without force?
  • TurtleTurtle
    edited 2011-05-12 14:55:02
    I like turtles.
    The Code of Hammurabi, for one.
    And was the Code of Hammurabi laid down by the all-powerful and all-knowing God of the universe (indirectly, it was, but do you believe that)?  If not, then it's as arbitrary as anything else and not really valid.


    Well, for what it's worth, you should render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's.
    And the only thing that is Caesar's is a tax to provide a military and police force to stop people from doing wrong.  Also, that just means "pay taxes and submit to governments that God has put in place on the earth," not "do not [peacefully, legally] oppose an unjust tax's being implemented" or "do not try to do [peacefully, legally] away with unjust taxes."
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    edited 2011-05-12 14:56:40
    that is the one situation where force is justified when it is in opoosition to force. the key isue is the initiation of force.

    Wait.... Governmetns that God has put in to place? This isn't a government of God It is not a Theocracy if you want that so badly go to Saudia Arabia.  but don't force everyone in to your religion Turtle. again h ere in the US we have a constitution that we base our government on if it was intended as you say we would have just used the King James Bible as law.
  • ForzareForzare
    Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
    And was the Code of Hammurabi laid down by the all-powerful and
    all-knowing God of the universe (indirectly, it was, but do you believe
    that)?  If not, then it's as arbitrary as anything else and not really
    valid.

    Assuming that the Bible was actually written by God.
  • TurtleTurtle
    edited 2011-05-12 14:57:50
    I like turtles.
    that is the one situation where force is justified when it is in opoosition to force. the key isue is the initiation of force.
    Why is it any more acceptable to use force in response than to initiate it?

    And what about crimes like theft, that don't necessarily involve force at all?

    Assuming that the Bible was actually written by God.
    And yet again, if you can't accept that premise then why accept that murder is wrong?
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    ok let me phrase it differently what ever protects Life, Liberty, and property. is tha tbetter?
  • TurtleTurtle
    I like turtles.
    Why is it good to protect life, liberty, and property?
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    You want to be free do you not? You want ot live do you not? You don't want to be stolen from do yo u?
  • ForzareForzare
    Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
    You don't need to believe in God to have morals.
  • TurtleTurtle
    edited 2011-05-12 15:01:05
    I like turtles.
    You want to be free do you not? You want ot live do you not? You don't want to be stolen from do yo u?
    So protect your own life, liberty, and property, screw everyone and everything else.  It's much easier to get what you want when you don't have to worry about its coming at others' expense.

    You don't need to believe in God to have morals.
    Not at all!  You just need to believe in God for those morals to have any rational basis.
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    What Forzare said. I'm an agnostic and I base my morals on a simple concept Do nothing to knowlingy cause harm and do nothing under any circomstances to infringe on free will and liberty.
  • TurtleTurtle
    I like turtles.
    But why is that moral code any better than the hypothetical moral code of "murder, cheat, steal, and do whatever it takes to further my own goals"?
  • NyarlyNyarly
    Likes cheesecake unironically.
    Assuming that the Bible was actually written by God.
    And yet
    again, if you can't accept that premise then why accept that murder is
    wrong?

    ...I read that multiple times, but I still have a hard time understanding this. The only thing I get is that I never want to meet you in person.
  • ForzareForzare
    Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
    But why is that moral code any better than the hypothetical moral code
    of "murder, cheat, steal, and do     whatever it takes to further my own
    goals"?

    Because some of us can figure out right from wrong without someone having to tell us.
  • TurtleTurtle
    I like turtles.
    So...

    "[x] is wrong because [x] is wrong"?

    'kay.
  • ForzareForzare
    edited 2011-05-12 15:06:46
    Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
    So...

    What you're saying is that if it weren't for God, you'd be okay with murder, rape, etc?

    'kay.
  • TurtleTurtle
    I like turtles.
    Well, there'd be no logical reason to have qualms about any of those things.  So yeah, I'd be fine with 'em.
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    pretty much Turtel you ahve no right to force anyone to your moral code you ahve a perfect right ot live by it b  ut not to force everyone else to we have rights as individuals not collectives. You want only CHristian collectives to have personal liberty because youa gree with them and you want everyone else to confomr to that.
  • ForzareForzare
    edited 2011-05-12 15:08:54
    Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
    Well, there'd be no logical reason to have qualms about any of those things.  So yeah, I'd be fine with 'em.

    That's... kind of disturbing.
  • NyarlyNyarly
    Likes cheesecake unironically.
    Most people have a certain amount empathy, which tells them that stealing, murdering and raping is not very nice. Others are incapable of empathy and need religion to tell them not to do these things. These people would steal, murder and rape if they ever lose their belief. It seems Turtle belongs to the latter.

    Yeah, I really never want to meet him.
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    I have toa gree with Forzare again that was just distrubing Turtle.
  • NyarlyNyarly
    Likes cheesecake unironically.
    Turtle, this may totally crush your mind: Christian aren't the only ones, who have morals. Christians didn't invent the concept of morality. Shocking, I know...
  • TurtleTurtle
    I like turtles.
    Unless the Bible is true, then having empathy is stupid and detrimental to one's self.  Niceness tends to come at the cost of personal gain.
  • ForzareForzare
    Till shade is gone, till water is gone, into the Shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath, to spit in Sightblinder’s eye on the last Day.
  • Tnu1138Tnu1138
    Just  go to Conservepedia already.
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