Horror is always a dying breed.

Malkavian · 2012-10-12 21:29:21

My problem with Dead Space is the same problem I have with Aliens, really.

Fitting as Aliens is the movie that started this kind of trend come to think of it.

Alex no Alexing.

JHM · 2012-10-12 22:08:05

Real horror is very hard to convey in a game format. The closest thing that I can think of off the top of my head to a true, "pure" horror game would be that diving helmet installation piece that this one arty game designer did a while back; it's purely sound-based, simulating the conditions of being deep underwater and chased by... something in the darkness.

But there's also the problem of horror being a medium that really doesn't lend itself to win conditions. Even a triumphant protagonist in a genuine horror story tends to be left with something strange or terrible on their mind, or is allied with the very forces that make the story frightening to the reader. Otherwise, where is the lingering dread? The dread is essential. Winning is not the point of horror, at least not in the classic sense.

This is what keeps horror a niche enterprise, particularly the atmospheric stuff.

Bitter? Yes and no.

ClockworkUniverse · 2012-10-12 22:12:05

Real horror is very hard to convey in a game format

No, I'd argue that it's easier, given that it can implicitly be you being threatened.

The problem is that games have this obsession with combat and winning that is antithetical to horror.

Even a triumphant protagonist in a genuine horror story tends to be left with something strange or terrible on their mind, or is allied with the very forces that make the story frightening to the reader. Otherwise, where is the lingering dread? The dread is essential. Winning is not the point of horror, at least not in the classic sense.

Play SpecOps: The Line. That's all I have to say.

Malkavian · 2012-10-12 22:16:26

I'd also state that 'getting to the game's conclusion' isn't technically 'winning' or 'beating' a game. You don't 'win' books when you finish them. However, that's the association designers make.

I hate it when people have this thing where gaming is the best medium ever but I think in the case of horror it has the potential to outshine every other medium.

Potential mind you.

ClockworkUniverse · 2012-10-12 23:38:06

I think there are things games can do that other media can't. I think there are things other media can do that games can't.

At the moment, most games haven't done much to realize their potential, though, even moreso than other media.

glennmagusharvey · 2012-10-12 23:47:44

What is this "sanity meter" stuff? ~~is it anything like this~~

It just seems weirdly...unimmersive.

Anyway, should I wait to play Deadly Shadow until I get Thief Gold, or just go ahead with TDS?

Malkavian · 2012-10-12 23:51:46

^^Yeah, I just think said things are overstated by gaming enthusiasts.

ClockworkUniverse · 2012-10-12 23:51:50

It's based on a mechanic in the Call of Cthulhu TRPG. Basically, weird stuff happens when your character is scared. The details vary depending on what game you're talking about. It's designed as a means of incentivizing running away.

glennmagusharvey · 2012-10-12 23:58:04

It seems very forced, though. You're supposed to be convinced to run away by the setting and circumstances itself, not by an arbitrary scale, right?

My only experience with it is in Amnesia, though. Telling the player what the player-character's sanity is itself immersion-breaking, though at least they did it in a way that wasn't particularly bad.

ClockworkUniverse · 2012-10-13 00:03:06

You're supposed to be convinced to run away by the setting and circumstances itself, not by an arbitrary scale, right?

I don't see why it has to be either-or. Mechanical incentives are inherently a component of any game; in a horror game, having a reason not to charge in guns blazing is good.

MadassAlex · 2012-10-13 00:36:30

I think sanity meters can be great in games because they put variable to a character's mental state. This variable allows the game to measure not what the character experiences in fact, but what they experience in psychology. So the game can potentially alter which stimuli the player is shown based on a character's mental state. Sanity meters can be invisible, too, so the player doesn't get a measurement of what's good or bad for their sanity so much as a general indication based on their actions.

As for horror games in general, I think they might benefit from branching into other genres. Remember, our classic examples like the original Silent Hill and Resident Evil games have an actionesque design and control setup to begin with. But who's to say you couldn't have horror in a management game, or in a strategy game, or whatever? Horror, in all mediums, is about the emotion rather than any technical specifications of any given work. It really has no rules, except that you can't do things that prevent the work from being a horror (because then you're making something else, of course).

Firebert · 2012-10-13 01:08:32

A nice example of that is Fallout 3, which at points felt very horror-esque to me. And Dark Souls, for obvious reasons.

JHM · 2012-10-13 02:36:10

No, I'd argue that it's easier, given that it can implicitly be you being threatened.

"Horror" is not the same thing as "fear." A game can be scary more easily than a book, but I think that it is far harder to convey subtler shades of unease in that format. It's hard to have a moment like the waving man in Algernon Blackwood's "The Willows" or the denouement of E.F. Benson's "Caterpillars" in an interactive medium.

But then again, the kind of horror that I enjoy tends to be much more understated and suggestive than the kind that gets adapted into video games. I like stuff that creeps up on you slowly and never really comes into the open, even at the end. I like an enigma.

My ideal for a horror game would be modeled on one of those simple, unpeopled adventure games like Myst, but slowly becoming weirder and more tense as it goes on. Throughout, the player is completely alone, never being given a complete idea of what's going on, only knowing that they must do certain things or something will happen.

ClockworkUniverse · 2012-10-13 02:38:19

"Horror" is not the same thing as "fear." A game can be scary more easily than a book, but I think that it is far harder to convey subtler shades of unease in that format.

Again, play SOTL.

JHM · 2012-10-13 02:40:55

I'll look into it. I'm godawful at video games in general, seeing as I have almost no hand-eye coordination, but the way you talk about it intrigues me. Again, dread is rare in interactive media, and if a game can pull it off...

ClockworkUniverse · 2012-10-13 02:42:13

Fair warning: set it to easy mode. Just trust me on this one.

Formaldehyde · 2012-10-13 04:14:18

I agree with you about Re6, Silent Hill and what, but horror isn't dyingl you've just got to know where to look.

And you'guys are right on about there not being any zombie survival-horror games. Hopefully, that ZombieU game will fix that.

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Horror is always a dying breed.

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