Climate Change Denial

glennmagusharvey

Well, I'm not absolutely certain that it's happening either, to be honest.  And I'd like to think that it isn't.

But here's what I see:

* Carbon dioxide is a "greenhouse gas"--it absorbs and re-radiates longwave radiation from the Earth's surface.  Or, in other words, it traps heat.

* We're adding long-lost carbon to the atmosphere as carbon dioxide, by burning fossil fuels.

Now either nothing's happening, or something's happening.  Right?

All signs I can see point to something rather than nothing.  I can read about temperature measurements showing that globally-averaged temperatures are rising, that we're having hotter and hotter years, and that these increases are independent of things like sunspot cycles and the natural trend (which actually was cooling before we messed with it!).  And I can see climate records being shattered (on my very own roof, even), and crazy weather happening more and more often.

And I haven't heard convincing arguments the other way yet.  In fact, the most convincing thing I've felt so far is simply doubt.  That we're not sure that what's happening is a trend rather than random screwballing.  And that's not very convincing...or comforting, to be honest.  And these people from the other side have yet to decide what they want to convince me of--is it not happening? or is it happening but not our fault? or is it our fault but everything's okay?  Something magical better be keeping stuff from happening.

So, while I don't like those crazy "eco-nazis" and their antics, if I had money to bet on whether climate change is happening, I would bet it is and we ain't helpin' any.

BonSequitur

We're rapidly approaching the point where you'll really have to have your head in the sand not to notice climate change. This is a politically hopeless issue, though. When it becomes bad enough that people won't be able to ignore it, it'll be too late.

And my concern about these things is human. Hell, I'm the first one to argue that emerging countries have a right to industrialize and that the first world needs to carry the brunt of the burden of working towards sustainability, but fucking the environment is just going to kill people.

Khwarizmi

^ That (second paragraph).

And besides, does it really matter whether global warming is anthropogenic or not?  It's still a threat to human well-being, and as such we ought to be trying to prevent it, not make it worse.

Turtle

But what I'm saying is that there is no way that our pitifully small amount of influence can make the climate better or worse.  We just aren't that significant.

Khwarizmi

[citation needed]

We've reshaped entire landscapes.  We're the human race.  We can definitely alter the atmosphere.

It's my understanding that we all the evidence suggests that we already have, but even if we haven't, we clearly could.

glennmagusharvey

(Note: This may be a repost.)

> But what I'm saying is that there is no way that our pitifully small amount of influence can make the climate better or worse.  We just aren't that significant.

But we are.  We've already influenced the climate.  Remember that a large number of small things add up to something big.

That said, there are some convenient point sources of carbon emissions (i.e. from one geographical location, rather than spread out) at which it would be great to capture carbon emissions.  If we can get carbon capture technology in place at fossil-fuel-burning power plants, that would be one major step forward.

(Of course, that still would rely on there being someplace to dump the carbon afterwards.  That's why we have people usng and looking at "enhanced" oil and natural gas recovery (where carbon dioxide is pumped into the ground to push out the fossil fuel), looking into injecting carbon dioxide into spent oil wells, and geochemists and engineers studying how to speed up the normally very slow reaction of chemical weathering by which carbon dioxide reacts with rocks.)

BonSequitur

Pumping all that carbon back into the ground where we got it from does sound like a good idea.