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Sexist jokes v. racist jokes
The team of people I work with is made up of about 50% men to 50% women. Most of us are white Anglo-Saxons, but there's a lady of Indian origin and an Orthodox Jewish guy.
I would never make a racist joke to the Asian lady or the Jewish guy - and by that I mean even an "ironic" one - but when two of the women suggested we should get rid of some casebags on our shelves because they looked dirty/untidy, I did make a crack along the lines of "Women! Always trying to tidy things up!" . Everyone laughed. However, it is a sexist joke (and, in cold print, not terribly funny either).
So how come I was prepared to do one, but not the other (besides, possibly, being a sexist twat)?
Comments
Racism is a far touchier topic in your culture?
> playing some freaking racing game at a party
> there's a demolition mode
> female player steps up
> no experience with the game
> beats all of our high scores, every single fucking one
> "THIS IS WHY WOMEN SHOULDN'T DRIVE!"
> everyone laughs
> pretty pleased with myself
I think these kind of jokes are pretty context-sensitive, and I doubt you'll find any kind of singular, ultimate answer here or anywhere. I guess the rule of thumb is that you should play to your audience. You're probably likely to find more racial humour amongst close-knit, multiethnic social groups.
F'rinstance, I have a friend who's from Thailand. He's got dark, South Asian skin. If he were African in origin, we'd call him black. So we're telling jokes, and he's all "What do you say when your TV gets up and starts moving in the middle of the night?"
I answer at exactly the same time he does:
"[NAAAAAME!]"
Everyone laughs, we brofist.
Context.
Solution: make racist sexist jokes. Go both ways with regards to genders and ethnicities.
That's not as bad as a kitchen joke, to be sure. That's much like saying "Nuns. No sense of humor."
^^^ That's a good point.
Racism is like this BBEG of bigotry right now, and it's kind of interesting to see how it eclipses other forms while so few know much about it.
For instance, my friends and I were discussing Skyrim and the conflict between the Imperials and the Stormcloaks. Obviously, we got around to talking about which side we picked and why. One of my friends is all "But dude, the Stormcloaks are racist". I remember thinking that there are worse crimes than racism, but it was also my gut reaction to concede the point because of social pressure. I didn't know, 'cause fuck imperialism.
In fact, the setup in Skyrim is interesting. The Nords are (broadly) racist because their authority over their ancestral lands is crumbling as the Imperials take root. Racism is one of those things that takes a shitton of time for a culture to get over, but which option will make it better first? To give the Nords their land back and put them at ease, or to have them resent the Imperials and all the foreigners that will now own the lands that were once theirs?
Ironically, helping out the Stormcloaks is ultimately the less racist answer. By putting authority back in the hands of the Nords, you're more likely to quell long-term racism, where it would fester and rot under the Imperials.
Or perhaps I shouldn't apply real-world logic to fantasy games, or whatever.
Wait, wait, you sided with the STORMCLOAKS? Those short-sighted elf puppets?
Imperial is the only way to go.
> implying the Imperials aren't short-sighted elf puppets
> fuck elves, seriously, all of them
@MadassAlex: A lot of people argue that the Stormcloaks are short-sighted elf puppets based on the Thalmor dossier for Ulfric (never mind that it also says that a Stormcloak victory is to be avoided at all costs -- the elves don't want either side to win anytime soon).
> ignoring moe anime and MLP for any reason whatsoever
^ I know. The game also has evidence that the Imperials are working in favour of the Thalmor as well, though. It's pretty much a Batman Gambit on their part, although nothing that some Norskfaggotry and good steel can't fix, I'm sure.
^^ Is this going to lead into a conspiracy theory where those shows physically rot the minds of males?
Honestly I'm just hoping that this will derail into a discussion on moeshit until Malk mentions Batman again.
I'm actually kind of enjoying Mouretsu Pirates, though.
Apparently, the only reason Mouretsu Pirates stars school girls is so that it would sell better. The writer's pretty well known for non-fiction science stuff.
I would've watched it with or without schoolgirls.
Come to think of it, the concept does seem a little wasted as-is. A bright schoolgirl inheriting a pirate ship almost seems a little too pedestrian -- it would be more thematic to have it fall into the hands of a dropout gone small-time smuggler or something. You know, "this is your chance to make something of yourself", that kind of thing.
I actually tend to agree with Gelzo's point that there's never been a genocide against females (a femicide?), although women as women have been subject to various kinds of violence throughout history (rape, domestic violence, and so on). There's less historical edge behind sexist humour.
@CaptianBrass: There is a gendericide happening in South Asia right now
And that shit was going down surreptitiously in China for a while, too.
It's gross and awful. I do take solace in the fact that the same barbarians who do that shit are going to end up murdering each other and dragging their own cultures through the mud. They'll get what's coming to them eventually.
B-baka... it's not like who I am underneath is important... it's... it's just that it's what I do that defines me!
Oh god, moebatman, NO! You've ruined my childhood, my name is Alessandro César Alonso Mogoruza, prepare to die!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-selective_infanticide
^^Oh man, you were not here for the finest discussion IJBM has ever held.
DON'T GIVE ME MORE REASONS TO END YOU!
/flails like a maniac
^This is pretty true. Let's say you're brought up in a culture that treats the idea of your country's ills falling to the fault of the Jews. Even if you're doing your best to be an open-minded person resentment is going to be internalized.
Honestly, the idea that men are more "worthy" than women and deserve to dominate over them is largely a construct of the Western world. Not to say that it's not present in other cultures, mind you, but in many places the idea of women as equals or even superiors to men has been replaced when they have come into contact with Western ideas, companies, and advertisers. For example, take a look at these two advertisements:
Both evoke images of submission on part of the marginalized group and domination on part of the traditionally empowered group, be it males or white people. And, I assume, both were complained about to a great extent. But only the latter was pulled, whereas the former was just left there until the end of the ad campaign. This demostrates a few things: that feminism is not taken seriously by many, which is why feminist complaints about the ad were largely ignored; that our society has, willingly or not, engendered a rape culture where images of rape are normalized to the point where even gang-rape is seen as acceptable, and that rape is only worthy of apology over when a racial factor enters into the equation; and, of course, that sexism is a far more acceptable form of bigotry than racism. It has approached the point where we are literally telling people to take pictures of female butts...
...viewing them as conniving jerks committing a conspiracy against toilet seats (and projecting an image of a "good" woman as one who lets her husband walk all over her)...
...and saying that women should not be in positions of power if they're not hot.
Holy shit I've seen the bullshit of all those except the last....
How could they even see that as okay?
I disagree that masculine control is a purely western construct, as seen by the rampant sexism in many other only loosely related cultures. I've heard that Japan was somewhat better on women's rights (as well as homosexuality) until the Meiji era but other than that a lot of other cultures value masculinity over feminity. Take China's male-based society, which partially comes from a Confucian belief that only men may conduct sacred rites. (I'm vastly simplifying this, admittedly)